I'm ready to buy disc brakes and master cylinder.

[40desoto]

I started with a scarebird kit a few years back.  This thread is motivating me to get on this project and finish.  I ordered the scarebird kit, and lowered control arms from Fatman.  I will also need to flip the control arms.  

If I recall correctly The last time I was stuck looking for master cylinder and residual valves to use with the kit.  Im also using an early 70's rear end with drum brakes.

Im hoping that after all these years someone has figured out the best master cylinder residual valve combination for the S10 calipers and drum rear and is willing to share.

 

 

[pflaming]

None any better than the other. But applications favor some over others I used one from an 98 Cherokee because I could mount it in line with my gutted out OE .master cylinder, as shown. In the truck it was a very tight fir when the proportioning valve was tucked in along side. On my ‘53 Plymouth the pedal shafts are part of the .master cylinder which is handy except the added MC top is above floor level.

 

That poses two negatives, first air flow control from outside and cosmetics. I decided I could overcome both and installed accordingly. Had I selected a different style I could hang the reservoir on the firewall.so in summery, the issue is application not better or best. IMHO 

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

I'm in process of installing disc brakes on my 39 Plymouth PT81 1/2ton pickup. I did a bunch of research and concluded that Rusty Hope, Scarebird, and ECI all to be decent if installed correctly. Rusty hope uses a in - rotor hub which I liked better than the separate aluminum hubs the others use, but even having the skill, I did not want to modify my steering knuckles and steering arms. I believe also because Rustyhope's mounting plates are mounted between the steering knuckles and arms it might require changing tie rod length if there is not enough adjustment? ECI's rotors are customized (redrilled Firebird rotors for 4.5 b.c.) making it more of a pain if you ever need to replace them.  Rustyhope offsets my wheels just about 1 inch out per side. ECI 1/2 inch per side and Scarebird 3/8 inch per side. Rustyhope and Scarebird claim no issue with using original wheels (16" on my truck).  I ultimately chose Scarebird and a jeep master cylinder which several on p15-d24 have had good luck with the trucks. There's another kit offered by "The Ram Man" which uses all mopar parts which is cool, but on the trucks require some steering arm modifications. The Ram Man's videos are worth watching but he did not respond to some questions I sent him. I found the others decent about answering my questions. Anyhow, make sure kingpins and bushings are good first and keep posting your progress.

[48ply1stcar]

I received my Scarebird kit and all the parts yesterday from a member who decided to go all ECI.  Can't wait to start.  The only problem is I have is a unheated garage in Minnesota and Spring doesn't come as early as it once did.  I rebuilt the front suspension the summer of 2017 with new kinpins and springs.

 

 

[LazyK]

18 hours ago, 48ply1stcar said:

Are you still using the original rear end?

yes. still using the original rear end, rebuilt the drum brakes.

[Dartgame]

Look at master power brakes remote reservoir master cylinders.

[48ply1stcar]

 

On 1/2/2020 at 11:01 AM, LazyK said:

 

I tried to delete the Quote.

 I bought the Scarebird kit. Called ECI and Mark at ECI and he said that that he couldn't set-up the Master Cylinder because the rear brake cylinders were too large. Which might force me to to do Cherokee axle swap sooner than later.

This diagram is from ECI, Please comment if you have S-10 front calipers and a stock rear end.  Also please comment on any plumping changes made for this configuration.

Edited January 22, 2020 by 48ply1stcar

[Erik V]

I've got Scarebird disc brakes ready to install but have held off until I could figure out a power booster and master that would still fit under my 39 Luxe you Liner. 

 

Erik V.

[40desoto]

On 2/1/2020 at 1:11 AM, Erik V said:

I've got Scarebird disc brakes ready to install but have held off until I could figure out a power booster and master that would still fit under my 39 Luxe you Liner. 

 

Erik V.

Heres what Im planning on.  Its been a while that I did research but there where alot of discussions in the past that I came to this conclusion.

 

Im using one of the older Scarebird kits (Ive heard they changed) which using Ford Probe calipers Also, I'm running a 1972 Satellite rear end with 15/16 diameter rear wheel cylinders.

 

I decided to use a 1975 Ford Mustang II (non-power brake) master cylinder.  part number: OEM brand M1614  (10-1614   227181)

The 75 Ford mustang II rear wheel cylinders are 7/8 diameter.  Not sure of the 7/8 to 15/16 difference will have a significant difference.

 

 

 

[Sniper]

Smaller wheel cylinders lessen the braking force applied, one way to fine tune rear brake lock up if that is an issue. 

[derbydad276]

On 1/1/2020 at 8:19 PM, Sniper said:

So the scarebird calipers are substantially smaller in bore diameter than ECI uses in it's kit.   Which means substantially less brake force at the pads for a given foot pressure at the pedal, about 25% less if my math is working today.

either size  disc brake system will be a 200% improvement over the drum brake 

[Sniper]

The math clearly supports the ECI kit is a vast improvement over the Scarebird one, no math supports your 20% claim.  Do you have some?

 

If I were going to spend money on a disc brake kit I would want as much for that money as I could get. 

[NickPick'sCrew]

Just thinking out loud -- and when I think out loud federal regulators have asked me to provide warning labels, but....

 

If you want to keep the stock rear and still go with the ECI MC set up with the scarebird front....would think you could dial it in with adjustable proportioning valves (?)

 

The set up Nicholas and I went with (full ECI) didn't call for an adjustable valve, but once we get the car back together and test in the brakes, if we find that the rear or front brakes are locking up too soon we may add one anyway.

 

Again warning labels, I've serviced my share of brake systems -- but that was 27 years ago and I've not re-enginered a system ever -- just thinking out loud. 

 

[48ply1stcar]

1 hour ago, NickPick'sCrew said:

Just thinking out loud -- and when I think out loud federal regulators have asked me to provide warning labels, but....

 

If you want to keep the stock rear and still go with the ECI MC set up with the scarebird front....would think you could dial it in with adjustable proportioning valves (?)

 

The set up Nicholas and I went with (full ECI) didn't call for an adjustable valve, but once we get the car back together and test in the brakes, if we find that the rear or front brakes are locking up too soon we may add one anyway.

 

Again warning labels, I've serviced my share of brake systems -- but that was 27 years ago and I've not re-enginered a system ever -- just thinking out loud. 

 

I bought a Cherokee rear axle Monday and drop it off at a driveline shop.  I'll drive the car there when there ready to perform the transplant.  While on the Plymouth Owners Club facebook page an owner of a 49 Dodge Wayfarer said that he used the Scarebird kit and stock rear and ECI MC and only used a metering valve and residual check valves.  I've wanted the Cherokee rear axle longer than I wanted disc brakes.  But now I'll feel better not using the original brakes that I meticulously rebuilt 25-years-ago.

 

From the POC FB page.

Edited February 5, 2020 by 48ply1stcar

[classiccarjack]

On 1/7/2020 at 6:04 AM, 48ply1stcar said:

I received my Scarebird kit and all the parts yesterday from a member who decided to go all ECI.  Can't wait to start.  The only problem is I have is a unheated garage in Minnesota and Spring doesn't come as early as it once did.  I rebuilt the front suspension the summer of 2017 with new kinpins and springs.

 

 

That car is a beauty.

[classiccarjack]

2 hours ago, 48ply1stcar said:

I bought a Cherokee rear axle Monday and drop it off at a driveline shop.  I'll drive the car there when there ready to perform the transplant.  While on the Plymouth Owners Club facebook page an owner of a 49 Dodge Wayfarer said that he used the Scarebird kit and stock rear and ECI MC and only used a metering valve and residual check valves.  I've wanted the Cherokee rear axle longer than I wanted disc brakes.  But now I'll feel better not using the original brakes that I meticulously rebuilt 25-years-ago.

 

From the POC FB page.

Can you please update us with the outcome when you are done with pictures?  

 

I usually dream up my own stuff, but a few years back, I had help from Scarebird(I believe) to do a conversion on a off topic A100 Van.  Used his brackets on a 11" Drum Brake Spindle.  Used 1972 Ford LTD Rotors(needed a spacer for the inner bearing btw), 1997 Dodge 1500 truck calipers, and figured out the rest on my own....  Worked very well.

 

I really want to not overthink my Plymouth conversion.  This topic will help me make better decisions.  Since I closed my shop 10 years ago, and my old source Plydo is gone, I no longer have anyone to brainstorm with...  I really look forward to see how you guys get it done the way that works best for you.  

[classiccarjack]

On 1/1/2020 at 7:23 PM, pflaming said:

Rusty Hope kit, fits the first time every time. Save your time and order a kit. That’s my recommendation. 

Looks very practical.

[48ply1stcar]

Delete

Edited February 8, 2020 by 48ply1stcar

[40desoto]

On 2/4/2020 at 1:58 PM, 40desoto said:

Heres what Im planning on.  Its been a while that I did research but there where alot of discussions in the past that I came to this conclusion.

 

Im using one of the older Scarebird kits (Ive heard they changed) which using Ford Probe calipers Also, I'm running a 1972 Satellite rear end with 15/16 diameter rear wheel cylinders.

 

I decided to use a 1975 Ford Mustang II (non-power brake) master cylinder.  part number: OEM brand M1614  (10-1614   227181)

The 75 Ford mustang II rear wheel cylinders are 7/8 diameter.  Not sure of the 7/8 to 15/16 difference will have a significant difference.

 

 

 

Correction- Found my scarebird receipt from 2013 and it used 1990 Chevy Cavalier Calipers and Ford Probe rotors.  I cant find any literature as to what year Ford Probe rotors, Ill be calling Scarebird to verify.

 

[48ply1stcar]

40desoto

I don't think the Probe rotor changed in the 8-years the Probe exsisted.  The the Scarebird site just states Probe rotor.

[40desoto]

2 hours ago, 48ply1stcar said:

40desoto

I don't think the Probe rotor changed in the 8-years the Probe exsisted.  The the Scarebird site just states Probe rotor.

Thank you!    Yes I just confirmed by looking at the rotor differences on all year Probes... all call for the same part number.  Thank you.

 

Need to vent a lil here-  I called Scarebird and they informed me to email them.  I emailed and stated that in 2013 the recommended the 1990 Chevy Cavalier caliper with a Ford Probe rotor my question was what year Probe rotor they recommended back in 2013.   They stated they couldnt tell unless I provided them a part number that "might" be stamped on the adapter. 

Interesting....  ?

[Adam H P15 D30]

They might be trying to verify your purchase or there was some sort of running change 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Adam H P15 D30

[48jumpdoors]

On 1/5/2020 at 6:26 PM, Adam H P15 D30 said:

No increase in track that I noticed. Accepts factory 15” wheels too, most others won’t 

I am using the stock master cylinder with the pressure check valve removed. No other residual check valves added. 

Been on for several years now and 1000s of miles with zero issues. 

so I looked at the Scarebird description of the kit for a 48 Plymouth and saw that they are saying to take out the residual pressure valve? where is this located? I see in my manual that there is a "valve assembly" in the master cylinder schematic is that it? Thanks

[Adam H P15 D30]

12 hours ago, 48jumpdoors said:

so I looked at the Scarebird description of the kit for a 48 Plymouth and saw that they are saying to take out the residual pressure valve? where is this located? I see in my manual that there is a "valve assembly" in the master cylinder schematic is that it? Thanks

Yes, it's the rubber check valve closest to the rear of the master cylinder.

[48jumpdoors]

1 hour ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Yes, it's the rubber check valve closest to the rear of the master cylinder.

thanks so much Adam H P15, did you have to rebuild/replace your stock MC? if so did you do it from the top (removing the floor boards) or come at it from underneath? I have heard from here that going in from the top is easier.