54 C1C6 Build

[JBNeal]

Maybe some JB Weld could help here...

[bkahler]

38 minutes ago, JBNeal said:

Maybe some JB Weld could help here...

l don't know that JB  Weld would hold up to the stress from the mating roller.  There's got to be a reason why the worms wear like they do.  Mine was worn the same way only worse.

 

[JBNeal]

The gear alloys back then were prone to having impurities that led to weak spots that would wear prematurely.  I'm basing this assertion on the presence of gear repair sections in several of the old O-A welding manuals I have read, that instructed on brazing galling in gear teeth and welding broken teeth on gears and sprockets.  I've never tried JB Weld on a worm gear, but if those voids are filled and smoothed so that the epoxy is not significantly proud of the metal surface, then the remaining metal gear surface would take the pressure while the epoxy would be compressed...eventually the excess JB Weld would wear off, at worst the epoxy would delaminate and get chewed up by the gears.  But this may take many load cycles to occur, so it might be a viable option.

 

I have been refurbishing a piece of agricultural equipment that I repaired with JB Weld back in 2001, and I was kinda experimenting with the epoxy on voids in a shaft that took less than a ton of loading.  Peeling this machine apart, the JB Weld has held up, only discoloring from contact with wheel bearing grease, but as I was cleaning the shaft, some of the epoxy dislodged, so I cleaned the voids with a steel bristle brush and aerosol brake cleaner before applying more epoxy.  It's been a couple of days of curing in the sun, so I'm sanding the shaft smooth today before reassembling.  It was a cheap fix that worked surprisingly well, so this might work in this application as well.

[bkahler]

5 minutes ago, JBNeal said:

The gear alloys back then were prone to having impurities that led to weak spots that would wear prematurely.  I'm basing this assertion on the presence of gear repair sections in several of the old O-A welding manuals I have read, that instructed on brazing galling in gear teeth and welding broken teeth on gears and sprockets.  I've never tried JB Weld on a worm gear, but if those voids are filled and smoothed so that the epoxy is not significantly proud of the metal surface, then the remaining metal gear surface would take the pressure while the epoxy would be compressed...eventually the excess JB Weld would wear off, at worst the epoxy would delaminate and get chewed up by the gears.  But this may take many load cycles to occur, so it might be a viable option.

 

I have been refurbishing a piece of agricultural equipment that I repaired with JB Weld back in 2001, and I was kinda experimenting with the epoxy on voids in a shaft that took less than a ton of loading.  Peeling this machine apart, the JB Weld has held up, only discoloring from contact with wheel bearing grease, but as I was cleaning the shaft, some of the epoxy dislodged, so I cleaned the voids with a steel bristle brush and aerosol brake cleaner before applying more epoxy.  It's been a couple of days of curing in the sun, so I'm sanding the shaft smooth today before reassembling.  It was a cheap fix that worked surprisingly well, so this might work in this application as well.

 

Interesting.  To be honest I was rather surprised at the type of damage I've seen on the steering worm gears.  Instead of wear it's more like gouges in the metal.  

 

Based on  your description it sounds like JB Weld would be worth trying.  Probably the worst that would happen would be for the epoxy to break off and fall to the bottom of the gearbox and you'd just be back to what you had before.

 

 

[David A.]

My experience has been that this type of damage is caused by improper adjustment of the gearbox. The gearbox is designed to have the least amount of play between the sector shaft and worm gear when the wheels are in the straight ahead position. If someone adjusts the play in the steering while the wheels are left or right of straight, when the wheels are returned to the straight ahead position, there will be no clearance between the worm and sector shaft. This condition leads to galling. 

I would be concerned about using JB Weld in this type of application. If a chunk of it were to become dislodged and jam between the sector shaft and worm gear,  it could cause at least a momentary hesitation in the steering. At high speed that might be enough to cause an accident. 

[CO54]

Don't have any JB Weld, but do have the POR-15 Epoxy Putty.  Thinking about mixing up a really tiny batch to fill the void and then sand down to as smooth as possible. Will be holding on this until I get the daily driver back up and running.  That's today's project.... 

I appreciate the input, and conversation.  I'll post with updates as I get into it. 

Thanks again. 

Eric

Quote

 

 

[kencombs]

I think I would be tempted to fill that gouge with brazing and file/polish flush with the surrounding steel.   Won't last like steel, but better than any epoxy or similar maybe.

[billrigsby]

5 hours ago, kencombs said:

I think I would be tempted to fill that gouge with brazing and file/polish flush with the surrounding steel.   Won't last like steel, but better than any epoxy or similar maybe.

 

I agree the pores of that steel, albeit hardened, is going to still have micro particles of lubrication in them, nothing's going to stick to it that doesn't involve heat and some form of molten metal.

 

[CO54]

Think I found my binding spot today!  2 of the 3 seals arrived and are installed in the main housing. While doing a dry fit with partial seals installed I found this part binding. Suspect a spot of old grease/dirt in there. The darn part I didn't want take apart now, needs tore down for cleaning and inspection. 

 

 

I did end up getting an O-ring (kinda fits) from Napa for the bottom part, and ordering gasket maker to cut another grease seal prior to installation.  Still have some concerns with the pitting on the worm gear, but definitely less now what I've verified the binding is coming from. The corn grease arrived too, once I get this bugger marked and tore down, we'll go from there. 

Thanks. 

Eric

[Radarsonwheels]

I’m impressed you’re getting that sucker back into service mine was so bad I threw away the entire chassis!

[CO54]

• Well, it's been a hot minute since I've updated this build thread. Here's some updates, the steering box rebuild went well, after the teardown and cleaning it went back together without any more binding. Got it all painted and set aside for the time being. Since, then I started moving onto body panels 1 by 1. Cleaning surface rust and repairing large dents after talking with kids n wifey about what they'd like for the finished product, and they agreed to leave any pits from rust or minor dents to stay as long as there's no structural integrity issues. Keeps the character and farm truck history even when it's repainted. We're not after a show truck, just a truck to enjoy. As for body panels completed so far. The inner fender wells have been cleaned, primed and painted black (not original, I know) for a black engine compartment overall. The floor repairs to cab have been completed, the underside of the cab has been primed and sealed with a spray on truck bed liner. The front outer fenders, 3 hood sections, and grill have been cleaned and had major dents repaired to be primed for protection and storage.  Everything with the exception of the cab is getting stored indoors after getting primed with rattle can heavy rusty red primer, all parts will get a rough sand and epoxy primer before paint to ensure total sealing. I've finally hit my 1st worse than thought issue.  The driver side door. I've only started cleaning up the outside and this is what I found hidden under that patina, and an old school body filler. It's clear that I have some rust to cut out and replace with new steel, and that's a point of input that's needed given the locations and my limited skills on intricate body work. The second is the extra weight with the old school "lead bodywork repair", do I torch the lead off and see what's under it and possibly do the repair with bondo? Looking for some input and suggestions. Greatly appreciate you taking the time to read all my rambling and provide feedback.
• Eric
• Gonna try to get the pics to upload/link properly.....

[CO54]

double post, sorry

Edited January 22, 2022 by CO54
double post

[CO54]

Got it!

Edited January 22, 2022 by CO54

[CO54]

Well, I'm still hoping for some input on the rust repairs that are needed. Fortunately, a day off with the MAP gas torch took almost 10#'s of lead off the door. Will be much lighter with a bondo fill instead, after further cleaning and prep is done. 

scratch marks are from the torch and paint scraper pulling more off. 

[kencombs]

Do you have a pic of the running boards, bottom side?  mine are so rusted that I can't tell how they mounted..  looks like a bracket and captive nuts were once there but now mostly gone.  Some PO had added a 2" wide 1/2" bar front to back along with through bolts, tin and Bondo, lots of bondo!

 

I'm going to try patching with some stainless I have on hand, then covering that area with rubber.

[bkahler]

17 hours ago, CO54 said:

Well, I'm still hoping for some input on the rust repairs that are needed. Fortunately, a day off with the MAP gas torch took almost 10#'s of lead off the door. Will be much lighter with a bondo fill instead, after further cleaning and prep is done. 

scratch marks are from the torch and paint scraper pulling more off. 

 

I can say with confidence you're delving into an area I know NOTHING about!  

 

Do you  have a picture of what the repair looked like before you melted all of the lead out?

 

[billrigsby]

5 hours ago, bkahler said:

 

I can say with confidence you're delving into an area I know NOTHING about!  

 

 

I would not know where to start either, at a bone yard maybe, I don't have that skill or patience. ?

 

[kencombs]

On 1/24/2022 at 2:12 PM, CO54 said:

Well, I'm still hoping for some input on the rust repairs that are needed. Fortunately, a day off with the MAP gas torch took almost 10#'s of lead off the door. Will be much lighter with a bondo fill instead, after further cleaning and prep is done. 

scratch marks are from the torch and paint scraper pulling more off. 

I just finished some rust repair on my 56.  Mostly fenders, floor, firewall and splash shields as the doors aren’t rusty.  Lots of old bodywork to redo though.  Check out fitzes fabrications on utube.  He’s much better than me.  Both doing and teaching

Edited January 25, 2022 by kencombs

[CO54]

7 hours ago, bkahler said:

 

I can say with confidence you're delving into an area I know NOTHING about!  

 

Do you  have a picture of what the repair looked like before you melted all of the lead out?

 

The picture prior to the puddle on the floor shows the door lead repair in the upright position, I turned it hinge side down to let gravity do the work as it melted.  The dent repair there really isn't to bad.  It's the rust that has my concerns, especially in such tight clearance, complex corners etc. 

[CO54]

7 hours ago, kencombs said:

Do you have a pic of the running boards, bottom side?  mine are so rusted that I can't tell how they mounted..  looks like a bracket and captive nuts were once there but now mostly gone.  Some PO had added a 2" wide 1/2" bar front to back along with through bolts, tin and Bondo, lots of bondo!

 

I'm going to try patching with some stainless I have on hand, then covering that area with rubber.

Ken, 

My running boards are in perfect condition. They are currently loosely installed on the truck frame for storage purposes.  I'll try getting them pulled this weekend and getting some pics for you.  It's dark by the time I get home from work. 

[Los_Control]

On 1/22/2022 at 4:19 PM, CO54 said:

talking with kids n wifey about what they'd like for the finished product, and they agreed to leave any pits from rust or minor dents to stay as long as there's no structural integrity issues. Keeps the character and farm truck history even when it's repainted.

I like that and think it is a very realistic goal for someone like myself just learning to work body panels.

Looking at the photos, lets be honest it would take a professional body man many hours to create a concourse restoration.

 

At my current skill level, I would be setting myself up for failure if perfection was my goal.

 

My first dent removal was a success, obvious something heavy was dropped onto the hood ornament and broke the ornament and a good dent in the hood. Thinking someone with a base ball bat.

She got a bop in the nose and I wanted to fix that one ... couple hours later not perfect but no bondo required.

A pro would still add filler to it though.

 

The dent in your door I have same issue to tackle. They sell a stud gun that will weld wire to the dent then use a slide hammer to pull the dent out.

I plan to use my welder to weld wire to the dent ... I have a slide hammer I can use to pull it out.

Tough area to get to both sides and work it out ... I plan to use some filler there,  but will get it as close as I can.

At least try.

 

The rust areas on your door look tough. If you take it one piece at a time it will go very well for you.

Save everything. Cut the rusted area out and use it for a pattern to create a new piece.

 

@kencombsnailed it ... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6JPmJ_aicru8XPWr3EvJnw

He shows us how to use basic tools to create tough body panels.

 

We all love a good laugh. ???

I bought a $35 lawnmower from a estate sale. The plastic front end was long gone.

I have used it for a few years now after doing all the regular maintenance it needed. With no hood when it rained the electronic ignition got wet and was unusable.  My goal was just to keep the engine dry.

I made this hood out of scrap metal. 90% of it is old 22 gauge steel from old window mount air conditioners.

Really thin & difficult metal to weld.

There is 12 pieces of sheet metal to weld together & create the hood. Does not count the frame, the hinge assembly or the console it rest on.

This is how you will rebuild your doors ... 1 piece at a time to recreate what you need.

Just do a better job on your doors then I did on my lawnmower ???

 

 

 

 

 

[CO54]

I know it's been awhile since posting any updates on here, life with teenagers and adult kids never gets and slower.  Yes the truck has made some serious progress.  99% of the body repairs are completed, the entire truck is in primer.  The brake lines and master cylinder have been installed, I know it's been awhile since posting any updates on here, life with teenagers and adult kids never gets and slower.  Yes, the truck has made some serious progress.  99% of the body repairs are completed, the entire truck is in primer.  The brake lines and master cylinder have been installed, and bled multiple times, mounts for the replacement fuel tank have been fab'd and installed with the tank. The past few months have been moving pretty fast on little thing progress with the help of my son, who is finally taking a serious interest in the truck.

 

We have now hit a snag that I swear I saw on the forum long ago. 

 

We are starting engine reassembly, and I'm looking for something like a step by step guide or list, the manual jumps all over the board without having a complete reassembly list.  It's currently a completely stripped block, just looking for a general idea of best practices.  

 

Yes, I'll be move active when work, and life allows with kids in sports etc. 

 

I appreciate any all assistance. 

Eric

[JBNeal]

additional information - flathead rebuild download

[CO54]

Thanks JB!

 

Yup Brad, still plugging away here too. 

[bkahler]

Post at least a picture or two showing the progress