SUCCESSFUL F1 SHOCK MOUNT RELOCATION

[48ply1stcar]

Four years ago I started "Successful rear axle swap"  we ended up with great information.  

I have looked for for Successful F1 shock mount relocations and the threads don't seem to finish.  Some pictures have spacers between the frame and the mount.  It appears that the mount just needs to be directly above and next to the king pin.  I also have new MOOG CC850 springs, and new rear springs, the car sits level but a little higher and leans in the corners.  I put in new shocks in 96 or 97 

Questions:  What length mount 5 1/2 or 6 1/2?

                      Which shock?

Edited June 27, 2019 by 48ply1stcar
added info

[Andydodge]

I posted a thread about 2-3 months ago with some pics on the upper shock mount relocation we did on my 1940 Dodge...heres a couple of the pics...........seems to be working fine............these are Munro shocks with the following numbers stamped into them.....PK14 and 1009.......they are very short........12.5" extended, 8.5  compressed .......we made the upper shock mounts as shown to suit these shocks, as they would not work with Frod F1 or Mopar 50's pickup cast steel shock mount brackets.........andyd  

[Plymouthy Adams]

use the search engine built into this website...will return 7 pages....not that much to make it an overwhelming read......different folks different strokes (where stroke is shock length)  depends on source of part, location of your mount...you can do the math easier by measuring what is stock now and the difference when your shock is relocated...go online to Monroe web page and buy by specs...

[grea235]

 

 

I recently put in F1 shock mounts on my 1952 Plymouth Concord.  I'm not that good of welder so I wanted an approach that was minimal fabrication/welding.
 
I ordered a set from Speedway Motors - 1948-52 Ford F1 Forged Upper Shock Mounts, 6-1/2 Inch.  They were 84.99 plus shipping/tax etc.
 
I didn't have an extra shocks to help locate where the mounts would go, so I make a shock simulator by cutting 2 short steel tubes the same size as the eye in the shock, then slid them on to the upper and lower mount studs. Then I welded a rod between them to simulate a shock.  I put in a sleeve on the rod so that I could adjust it up and down to get the top located in a position so it wouldn't hit the control arm or be too high or too low.
 
I mounted the fixture to the lower mount and bolted in the F1 mount at the top.  I tighted the bolts and got it into a good position.  The mount itself ended up hanging about 1 inch from the frame, so I used that measurement as the spacer, but subtracted for an 1/8" backing plate I was putting between the mount and the outside of the frame, so the spacers ended up at 7/8".

I cut the spacers out of steel spacers I got at the local Ace Hardware that were pretty thick wall.  
  
After marking and drilled the holes in the frame, I make some backing plates out of 1/8" by 1" steel. I drilled one set with holes and welded on nuts to go inside the frame and one set to go outside the frame with the intent of sandwiching the frame between the plates.
 
It was a bit tricky to get the backing plate up through the triangle slot in the bottom of the frame up into position on the frame.  I fed a string through the mount\washer\spacers, then through the top frame hole, down through the slot in the frame, then into one of the nuts on the backing plate and tied on a nut, then pulled.  It pulled the plate into position and I could get the bottom bolt in.  I tightened it and then spin the top of the plate into position...if that makes any sense.
 
I made a wag at the shock length and got Gabriel 82607's, but unfortunately they bottomed out.  So I make a swag and got some Gabriel 81676 shocks.  They are working fine and I was able to use the 82607's in the back.
 
The whole thing went pretty easy, but I had some issues, like my shock simulator was off a little, so the top shock mount stud wasn't parallel to the bottom, so I had to redo the bottom hole.  I was thru bolting the shock mount, thru one plate, then the frame then into the backing plate.  I was off a little and had to adjust the holes a little with a file.
 
It has a sway bar, I think it's a stock one, so with the shock relocation and the sway bar, it really stopped the boating of the front end.

 

I hope this helps.

 

FYI - The string is temporarily there because I have some clean up to do and if I take off the shock mount, I don't want the inside plate to fall down in the frame and be unretrieveable.

[knuckleharley]

Really none of my business,but you might want to take a chisel and hammer and knock some of that crud off your frame rails so you can derust and paint them.

[DJ194950]

Why paint?

 

Original patina'd crud is the new trend! ?

 

DJ

[Plymouthy Adams]

it is the cheap and easy way to go without exerting any time or energy...to that end it is the new trend.....

[48ply1stcar]

So based on what I've read whether using the 5 1/2 or 6 1/2 inch F1 shock mounts doesn't really matter.  Matching the shocks to the travel of the suspension is what matters.  I just thought that with so many people here there would be a concensus of what works best.

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

we cannot even get a consensus if this mod is worthy...some way no difference others swear its effectiveness.....some cars are not up to stock performance so any mod will not prove effective also...

[Bobacuda]

Tex Smith's book has an excellent section on relocating the front shocks.  Lots of other stuff and a great read as well.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Build-Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge-Rods/dp/1878772171

[brian b]

Grea235,

 

Once your shock mount project is complete. and your car is back on the road, could you give us a report on the results of the project.  From what I've heard and read, its a worthwhile modification, I'm interested in hearing  how the car performs.

 

                                                                                                                                              Thanks in advance,

 

                                                                                                                                                  brian b

 

                                                                                           

 

                                                                                                                                                                         

[martybose]

On 7/1/2019 at 10:39 AM, 48ply1stcar said:

So based on what I've read whether using the 5 1/2 or 6 1/2 inch F1 shock mounts doesn't really matter.  Matching the shocks to the travel of the suspension is what matters.  I just thought that with so many people here there would be a concensus of what works best.

 

Absolutely true. About 20 years ago I purchased a weld-in shock relocation kit and ordered the shock that they recommended.  Took it for the first drive and it rode like the front suspension was solid.  Turned out that even though I followed the directions and ordered the correct shocks I only had about a 1/4" travel before the shock bottomed out.  It worked fine after we extended the upper shock mounts upwards about 2 inches.

 

Marty

[YukonJack]

2 hours ago, Bobacuda said:

Tex Smith's book has an excellent section on relocating the front shocks.  Lots of other stuff and a great read as well.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Build-Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge-Rods/dp/1878772171

I can't believe how much Amazon gets for that book. I saw several used copies for 165.00 to over 300.00. Maybe I should sell my copy. Lol

[grea235]

I've driven the car around town and on the freeway after the shock mounts and shocks were installed for a month or so and it really stopped the boating of the front end around the corners and is a lot more stable.   It had a sway bar, so I couldn't tell you if a sway bar helped or no.   I had previously put on new rear leaf springs because they were flat, new shocks and 2 inch lowering blocks because the back sat a little too high.  If the springs relax some, I will take them out.  I am very happy with this part of the suspension changes.

 

 I do have a little problem with speed bumps and vibration but I doubt it's anything to do with the shocks or mounts.  If I slow roll over a speed bump, it is just fine.  If I hit them a little harder, the front end bangs a little.  It has what looks like the original springs and with the amount of crud on the suspension parts, it looks like they haven't ever been changed....ever.  The right side is a lot worse than the left.  The crud will come off soon...it will probably decrease the weight of the car by 100 lbs.  I have a set of moog cc850 springs coming in.  I'll put those on and see what happens.  If it sits too high, I'll either cut the springs or swap the lower spring mount, then move on to replacing the suspension bushings.

 

The vibration could be motor mounts, which is a little bit of a story.  It started because it would not go into reverse after I would crest the peak of my driveway and go down hill into the garage.  It would go into first just fine, but once it was nose downhill, it wouldn't go into reverse.  No amount of nudging, clutching, pleading or praying would help.  I would have to open my garage door, and get it into the garage to get it level, then it went in to reverse just fine.  Thanks to your forum, I attributed it to the rear motor mounts and got a set.  I didn't realize that the top ones had sleeves that went in from the top, so I couldn't change the top ones. (I will pull the motor this winter for this, a re-ring and clean up).  I noticed though that there were no lowers motor mounts installed.  So I put in the lowers and it significantly helped it to go into reverse.

 

Here's a couple pics.  It is a work in progress with the intent of a somewhat daily driver and keeping most of it stock.  I have a list of things to do on it and am trying to keep things with in scope.  It has been converted to 12v, but I've had to do some electrical work to straighten it out.  Since the picture, I put on a better hood ornament, front emblem, tail lights and door handles.  I put in three point seatbelts from Juliano's which went in pretty smoothly.  I had to do minimal fabrication for the B pillar mount.  I got it with a split exhaust manifold and dual exhaust.  It sounds pretty good.  The sisson choke was shot so it had a manual choke setup, but it wasn't well designed.  I got an older carb with a manual choke top and it works a lot better.  It will slowly turn black as I fix body parts and rust and then it will turn another colour.

 

It's great to run around town in it.  I get a lot of compliments\comments on it, even though it is pretty rough. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[48ply1stcar]

"G" Did you use a F1 Shock mount, if so which lenght and what shock did you use.

Also, I installed new rear springs from Andy Bernbaum and new CC850 from Rock Auto.  The car is level and maybe a little high.  The Front springs were easy and it was the first time for me.

 

[grea235]

I used a 6 1/2 inch one from speedway motors and gabriel 81676 shocks.  Thanks for the info on the springs, at least I won't be too high.

[48ply1stcar]

Has anyone used these shock mounts?

 

 

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Stainless-Steel-Upper-Front-Shock-Bracket-Unpolished,3331.html?sku=91636004&utm_medium=CSEGoogle&utm_source=CSE&utm_campaign=CSEGOOGLE&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjYHpBRC4ARIsAI-3GkFLtxzfJilBGZSZhmItTbUbLWy6QevPtWv8vHLenAav8Dy3flQey58aAspEEALw_wcB

Edited July 6, 2019 by 48ply1stcar
added image

[BobT-47P15]

I don't know the shock mount length I used, but I will say I'm still using my original length shocks.  Sometime back, some people said they used longer shocks.  They gave me the model numbers so I bought a pair and discovered they were too long....hit bottom real quick. Tried re-using originals and they seem to do ok. Could probably use a shock one inch longer actually.  Hope this info will help some.

[laynrubber]

I did a relocation kit i purchased through someone here (can't remember who now) but the shocks the kit recommended are't the correct size, or maybe my brackets were welded on incorrectly. your best bet is to remove the spring and measure your front suspension movement bump stop to bump stop. Fully compressed.....measure the shock mount distance. Fully extended....measure the shock mount distance. Buy the shock that fits that travel. Due to variances on where the upper shock mounts can be attached will vary the shock part number to purchase, so to ask what part number...I say it can vary.

Was this an effective mod, I don't know. Looking at the geometry I would say it has to be more effective but I can't tell with the driving test. 

[Old Flathead]

grea235,,, I'm at the point on my 50 Plymouth to consider doing a shock relocation. I see this thread was almost two years ago.  Do you have a long term report on the difference, better handling etc,, since you relocated the shock mounts? 

 

Thanks,  Eric , Old Flathead

[48ply1stcar]

6 hours ago, Old Flathead said:

grea235,,, I'm at the point on my 50 Plymouth to consider doing a shock relocation. I see this thread was almost two years ago.  Do you have a long term report on the difference, better handling etc,, since you relocated the shock mounts? 

 

Thanks,  Eric , Old Flathead

Check out this thread.  I just did a google search "1948 Plymouth front shock relocation"  and it listed some P15-D24 threads.  Find something you like and send a PM and ask to person about their relocation.  

 

[48ply1stcar]

On 7/3/2019 at 7:26 PM, grea235 said:

I used a 6 1/2 inch one from speedway motors and gabriel 81676 shocks.  Thanks for the info on the springs, at least I won't be too high.

Did you have to bend the mounts? Did you ever post a picture? When did you do this and would you recommend it in the long run?

 

[grea235]

I did this early last year.  I didn't have to bend the mounts, but they came close to the upper arm. I put a plate on the outside and a plate with nuts welded on, on the inside.  The sting was to help locate the inside plate.   Prior to this it boated in turns even with the factory sway bar.  The new shock mounts really helped a lot.

[48ply1stcar]

11 hours ago, grea235 said:

 

Thanks for the reply.  I re-read your posts on this thread you have provided me with the best detailed info. Now I see why some bent the mount.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by 48ply1stcar

[48ply1stcar]

Thanks all for your input, especially Grea235 and the many posts both here and on the Jalopy Journal,  https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/

 

Finally, after 5 years of doing other things to this car I broke down and had F-1 upper Shock Mounts installed in my car by a shop in Minnesota.  Scott Williams, Swillco Speed Shop, https://www.swillco.com/ they had a open house this summer so after talking to Scott I ordered the mounts from Bob Drake reproductions, https://bobdrake.com/ and set up an appointment.  I got to the point where I would rather drive the car than work on it, so I just had it done. I had an alignment done yesterday - still rides like a old truck but next spring is another season to play with the car.

Edited November 10 by 48ply1stcar