Rebuild Stock Steering Box or replace with Vega style?

[Bob Riding]

I'm looking at upgrades to my '52 Suburban project- I plan to stay with the stock front end suspension, and add disc brakes. I will be using a 218 with the Wilcap adapter and a TH200-4R overdrive automatic tranny. In going through old posts I saw that some members had swapped out the stock Plymouth steering box (worm and sector or worm and roller, I can't remember which), with a Vega or "Vega-style" box

Forum member John Burke said back in 2007 "I bought a "Flaming River" Vega steering box from Speedway...It was about $320.00...I am using it and it works like a dream...well worth the investment."

Assuming you don't change the front end geometry, what would be the benefit of the Vega box? It looks like you'll need to fab up some bracketry, etc. Speedway has one for $269.

[Andydodge]

I'd hazzard a guess that the Vega steering box benefits would include a newer design and much newer manufacturing with parts that would be easier to obtain, however will the original dogbone shaped pitman arm fit onto the  Vega pitman shaft?........I assume that you are not using the original steering column but an aftermarket one that should be a straightforward adaption to the Vega splined shaft............andyd  

[Bob Riding]

11 minutes ago, Andydodge said:

I'd hazzard a guess that the Vega steering box benefits would include a newer design and much newer manufacturing with parts that would be easier to obtain, however will the original dogbone shaped pitman arm fit onto the  Vega pitman shaft?........I assume that you are not using the original steering column but an aftermarket one that should be a straightforward adaption to the Vega splined shaft............andyd  

Good point -Yes, I plan to use an aftermarket column and re-use the original steering wheel. Do you know if the Vega design is a worm and sector, or something else?

[DJ194950]

I did something like you are think about years ago to a 1950 Plymouth Suburban using a 1968 wreaking yard (pick&pull) Mustang Box. The steering out put shaft matched the Ply. steering size and splines  just had to remove the boxes thicker splined centering spline ( twice as thick as the other fine splines) , to allow the Ply. shaft to be mounted on the Mustang box centered.

I had tack welded a piece of metal from the frame? to the steering output arm before removing the original Ply. steer box.

That allowed me to put locate the new box and build brackets for mounting as requires.

This Mustang box is avail. as power and non-power, probably different steer box ratios?.

 

Did not end up keeping the Mustang setup as I realized that all front suspension parts were worn out and the steer box was only one of many problems.

Did not know at the time were to get parts for this Old car or anything about old Mopar forums. I may not even had a computer back then. Changed to a Fatman frame section and M11.

 

But the add to Mustang Box was just fine. Just one way.

 

DJ

[Andydodge]

Bob, am not sure about the vega, probably worm & roller but thats really immaterial as the main thing is whether it will fit and whether the mopar dogbone fits the spline count......yrs ago I was building a Track Roadster with an Alfa 4 cylinder, I used an Oz Holden(similar to the Vega but RHD) steering box which had the same spline count as the 1940 Dodge(I think the same up till the early/mid 50's), I but I had to get a new dogbone pitman arm cut from 3/4 plate then a new spline broached as the Dodge pitman arm whilst it fitted was not centred corrrectly.......its always one thing leading to another.......lol...........the Mustang box that DJ used maybe worth checking out also............andyd..  

[DrDoctor]

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Edited December 20, 2018 by DrDoctor

[Los_Control]

I like the question on this thread, has anyone rebuilt their steering box? are there parts available for our old steering boxes?

 

I know rockauto offers a rebuild kit, or a rebuilt box using your old one for core charge, for not much more on my 91 chevy.

 

So I am curious if anyone knows of a kit available for our old cars, and if someone did rebuild it, is it a difficult job?

Or is it something we take to a qualified machine shop and leave it to them?

[DrDoctor]

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Edited December 20, 2018 by DrDoctor

[Andydodge]

Los.........I think the problems been that if the worm & roller are worn thats when it gets iffy as these parts are not common now, bearings, bushes and seals are available but, I've seen pitman shafts which include the roller on ebay but can't recall seeing any worms but they maybe out there somewhere.........of course thats for you guys, ie, for LHD.........RHD stuff for us here in Oz is made of unobtainium.............lol...............andyd    

[Bob Riding]

23 hours ago, DrDoctor said:

Bob,

   I’ve used Vega steering boxes on cars, but they were rather light – bucket T’s mostly. I knew a guy back home (the mid-west) that put one in a ’40 Ford coupe, and it cracked. Luckily, it didn’t fail while he was running down the interstate at 70+ mph!!! We replaced it with one from a larger car, and it’s still going strong, and that was in the early-80’s.

   I mentioned the issue of the donor vehicle’s weight and a component’s original design, vs the receiving vehicle’s weight and the component being overwhelmed by weight, in another topic herein just a few moments ago. What I mentioned there’s also applicable here.

   A failure in your driveway is bad, but a failure on the interstate can have catastrophic results. As such, my recommendation's to search for steering components designed to deal with the weight of the car they’re to be utilized upon. It’s far better to over-build rather than under-build, and inadvertently compromise the integrity of the vehicle.

   One can’t be too careful, and it’s better to be safe than sorry . . . Good luck, and best regards . . .

Yes I agree 100%...I wonder what a Vega weighs? Or a Mustang?

 

[Los_Control]

23 hours ago, DrDoctor said:

In response to the question pertaining to the rebuilding of steering boxes

 

20 hours ago, Andydodge said:

Los.........I think the problems been that if the worm & roller are worn thats when it gets iffy as these parts are not common now

Thanks for your valued opinions

 

Bob thanks for letting me ride along, I was just hoping to get a opinion for rebuilding the original while only seeing swap info, thus why I asked

My box seems to not have much play sitting in driveway, but one never knows. Once you wake them from a long sleep and get a few miles on them, things will show up.

 

 

[BobT-47P15]

You might check with this place located in a suburb of Springfield, MO,   I think they do manual as well as power steering boxes.  

 

http://www.powersteering.com/

 

They also do a thing called Fast Ratio Conversion......could maybe be interesting.        

Edited December 8, 2018 by BobT-47P15

[DrDoctor]

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Edited December 20, 2018 by DrDoctor

[matt167]

There are quality concerns with those boxes on T buckets ( causing accidents from failure ). I would never consider an aftermarket for anything heavier than a T bucket ( and try to find a rebuilt one instead  at that). The GM 525 has a slightly different bolt pattern than the Vega box but is designed for a heavier car and was used in the midsize cars ( A body IIRC ) until '72.. Chevelle, Malibu or Cutlass for instance. Parts stores could get them

[DrDoctor]

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Edited December 20, 2018 by DrDoctor

[matt167]

A real Vega box probably isn't an issue, which is what would have been available in the 70's but given the popularity they are harder to find. I wouldn't go out of my way to find one when a 525 is available. Although a T bucket even with a big block is still under 3k lbs by a lot. A modern T bucket with 350/350 fully dressed out will weigh about 2,300 lbs

[DJ194950]

For anyone still thinking about using a Vega style steer box, brand new Vega style are being made that are heavier duty and 100% brand new.

Borgeson Universal Co.and Flaming River are a few off the top of my head.

 

Both of these Co.'s make only USA built parts! Not the cheapest but if you want the best it never is!

 

DJ

Edited December 16, 2018 by DJ194950
Add USA built info

[Dan Hiebert]

Several folks have installed rack & pinion steering from a Volare (years unknown) with very good results.  I'd never heard of using a Vega steering box until this thread.  My concern would be whether a steering box designed for a compact car is robust enough for our big cars, although they don't weigh as much as one would think, but the geometry is quite different. 

 

As for rebuilding the existing steering box, the kits you can readily get are only seals and bushings, no sector shaft or worm gear & shaft.  If your sector and worm gears are worn, they have to be either replaced, or I believe rebuilders can be found.  If the sector shaft seals & bushings were run bad for too long, they'll wear the shaft down to the point where new seals/bushings just won't work. 

 

Getting those parts can be problematic, when I rebuilt the steering box in our D24 in 2014, there was one (1!) NOS sector shaft available in the Nation (at the time), and I lucked out getting that one because I made a phone call, vs. anything online.  And there were only a few worm gears w/ shafts available. The decision point for me would be how much having the original rebuilt would cost over finding NOS parts, in my case, since I did the labor myself, finding NOS was less expensive.  I knew rebuilders were available, but their quotes for both cost and time were way too high for my taste.

 

All that being said, restoring an original steering box is still just that, restoration of the car's original steering, which isn't all that stellar in the first place. 

[Los_Control]

2 minutes ago, Dan Hiebert said:

concern would be whether a steering box designed for a compact car is robust enough for our big cars,

vega and chevy monza was basically the same car, and the monza had a factory v8 as a option. Yeah a small car but they seemed built heavy enough for the factory to use a v8.

Of course all the aluminum vega motors died a quick death and v-8's were often installed.

Was pretty much a bolt in with off the shelf parts.

 

Yeah vegas were small cars, but built pretty well compared to a foreign car of the time period.

[Don Coatney]

When this forum was in its infancy 18 or so years ago someone posted a thread on replacing the steering box with something. I do not recall what that something was. After everything was installed it was discovered that if the steering wheel was turned clockwise the car turned left and if the steering wheel was turned counterclockwise  the car turned right. 

[Adam H P15 D30]

18 minutes ago, Don Coatney said:

When this forum was in its infancy 18 or so years ago someone posted a thread on replacing the steering box with something. I do not recall what that something was. After everything was installed it was discovered that if the steering wheel was turned clockwise the car turned left and if the steering wheel was turned counterclockwise  the car turned right. 

 Here's one, much better than the rack & pinion option.

 

Adam

Edited December 17, 2018 by Adam H P15 D30

[Plymouthy Adams]

Vega steering is probably the only piece that did not break or fall off the car during operation....old saying I love when you see one of these in rod form.....No matter what you do to it, its still a Vega....