dangulo Posted October 14, 2018 Report Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) Hello All, Excited to get started on the front disc conversion for several reasons. One reason is that this will be my first conversion that I am actually tackling myself and second for all the reasons to make her safer. I feel that this will not be a weekend job but will actually take me longer than expected. After receiving the kit in the mail, I started the tear down. The next is what I am I found during the tear down.. Inner/Outer tie rods need new ends/bushings Upper and lower outer bushing need replacement Steering arm and basically everything else is gunked with grease and dirt/mud.... King pins And the best surprise is what seems to be a bent knuckle spindle support on the passenger side. I suspected something was fishy when the I disconnected the steering arm and could not turn the spindle without using massive force.. Well this just means that I will have to order some front end suspension to replace and make the conversion take a little longer than expected. On the bright side, once I started putting some elbow grease some parts were looking pretty good. Here are some pics I took while doing the tear down for reference which will help me remember where everything goes.. Lets just say that I am not surprised that I'm not surprised... hmmm sounds like a good country song title... Edited October 14, 2018 by dangulo Title Quote
knuckleharley Posted October 14, 2018 Report Posted October 14, 2018 1 hour ago, dangulo said: Hello All, Excited to get started on the front disc conversion for several reasons. One reason is that this will be my first conversion that I am actually tackling myself and second for all the reasons to make her safer. I feel that this will not be a weekend job but will actually take me longer than expected. After receiving the kit in the mail, I started the tear down. The next is what I am I found during the tear down.. Inner/Outer tie rods need new ends/bushings Upper and lower outer bushing need replacement Steering arm and basically everything else is gunked with grease and dirt/mud.... King pins And the best surprise is what seems to be a bent knuckle spindle support on the passenger side. I suspected something was fishy when the I disconnected the steering arm and could not turn the spindle without using massive force.. Well this just means that I will have to order some front end suspension to replace and make the conversion take a little longer than expected. On the bright side, once I started putting some elbow grease some parts were looking pretty good. Here are some pics I took while doing the tear down for reference which will help me remember where everything goes.. Lets just say that I am not surprised that I'm not surprised... hmmm sounds like a good country song title... The good news is you found all these problems right now,and once you correct them and get your car back on the road it will drive like a new one,and your front end will be trouble-free for years. MUCH better to do this all at once while you have it apart than it is to keep pulling it apart to fix things one at a time. 1 Quote
Andydodge Posted October 14, 2018 Report Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) Well, yep, that spindle support IS bent..........they are essentially the same part thru to 1948 at least but from 42 on the shock absorber pin hole is occupied by a welded in stud, the spindle can be made to use on the 1940 cars by drilling out the welded in stud..............also I suggest keeping the lower outer bush hex headed rubber seal as these are not sometimes supplied in rebuild kits....also note which way the cotter pin or dowell is installed that locks the king pin into the spindle as it is removed or tapped out from the opposite side...................he metal dust seals or caps at the top & bottom of the king pins are just small welch plugs...................and if you have problems in finding the specific 1940 upper inner pins & bushes and the 39/40 outer pins & bushes you CAN replace the whole 1940 upper A arm and inner/outer pin & bush assembly with the complete 1941-1954 assembly which are generally much easier and cheaper to find........note also that any parts listed for 7 passenger vehicles do NOT fit the normal cars as far as I am aware............regards, andyd Edited October 14, 2018 by Andydodge 1 Quote
Adam H P15 D30 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Posted October 14, 2018 Looks like it’s time to call Fatman for a set of dropped spindles. 1 Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 14, 2018 Report Posted October 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, Adam H P15 D30 said: Looks like it’s time to call Fatman for a set of dropped spindles. his looked like it was dropped already.....from space....lol 1 Quote
dangulo Posted October 15, 2018 Author Report Posted October 15, 2018 Today the tear down continued as well as some interesting findings.. This car seemed to be buried sometime BETWEEN 1940 and 2018 as I dug up all this large pile of dirt...lol both lower control arms had about the same amount of dirt which was a ridiculous amount LOL... The good news is that no more dirt after I used my scraper to break loose all the dirt following up with the vacuum... The not so good news is for my wallet will be to replace new inner lower control arms with bushings/rubbers.. but will be worth it. I am also considering upgrading the sway bar to a thicker size as I have been reading some cool stuff here on Pp15-d24 forums. That will be next on my list but one step at a time. Quote
Andydodge Posted October 15, 2018 Report Posted October 15, 2018 Btw.................the lower inner and upper inner both use a rubber seal that is basically like a piece of rubber tube or hose and hose can be used if need be..........andyd. Quote
dangulo Posted October 15, 2018 Author Report Posted October 15, 2018 @Andydodge good to know just in-case and appreciate the heads up Quote
wayfarer Posted October 15, 2018 Report Posted October 15, 2018 ..also a good time to reverse the bottom spring plate if lowering the ride is part of the operation... 1 Quote
dangulo Posted October 16, 2018 Author Report Posted October 16, 2018 @Adam H P15 D30 I think you might be right, called fatman to get some info, they suggested I send the one of my uprights to confirm that their mopar drop uprights fit. So might just do that since I will have more time than money at the moment. Also I figured I can work on other front end stuff while I save enough for the upright kit. Quote
dangulo Posted October 28, 2018 Author Report Posted October 28, 2018 The journey is moving forward... as I am waiting and saving for front end suspension parts, decided to replace the oil pan gasket. Main reason is due to oil leaks all around the oil pan including where it meets the clutch plate. Seems that this would be a good time to replace oil pan gasket since it would be easier to access while the front end is take apart. Overall, there oil seems to be okay... I expected to see sludge but to my surprise no sludge.. yah! What I did find is a grey discoloring on the oil pump filter. Makes me think of water leak coming in but not quite sure... I will probably still replace the oil gasket as a rebuild is way out of the budget for the time being. Any pointers or gotchas I should be aware of? What are things I should look into while I have her belly open..? Quote
Andydodge Posted October 28, 2018 Report Posted October 28, 2018 I'd give the oil pan a thorough degrease and cleanout, also unbolt the oil strainer pickup and clean it out as well while I had the sump off........new pan side gaskets and front & rear gaskets and make sure not to overtighten the pan bolts, they should be tight but not so much that you squeeze the crap out of the cork and they break and allow oil to leak again..........that engine looks like its been apart recently as the pan doesn't seem to have much in the way of crud........which may or may not be a good thing.........lol..................andyd 2 Quote
knuckleharley Posted October 28, 2018 Report Posted October 28, 2018 What you are seeing on your finger may just be a result of condensation if it hasn't been started and ran down the road several times long enough to get every part in the engine up to normal operating temps so the heat could evaporate the natural condensation from starting and cold running. Plus,remember,the old straight 30 and 40 weight oil everybody used to run in these engines tends to trap water in it,anyway. That is almost certainly the wrong term,but I have never seen the base pans of modern cars look all crudded up with black and gray like is typical with the old cars. I suspect that once you get it all cleaned out it will stay clean if you drive it enough to get it to operating temps before shutting it down,even if you use modern non-detergent straight 30 or 40 wt oil. Oil is a LOT better than it used to be. 1 Quote
Ricky Luke Posted October 29, 2018 Report Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) The grey could also be bearing material. I'd take a couple of caps off and make sure there's a decent amount of white metal on them. I'm sure it's condensation, but while you're in there... Cheers Rick Edited October 29, 2018 by Ricky Luke 2 Quote
dangulo Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Posted October 30, 2018 Yes - thank you all for the great feed back. As some of you mentioned, I am considering replacing the lower rear main seal since I already there.. As I am reading topics here on p15-d24 in regards to replacing the rear/front main seal, I should first remove prior to purchasing to match the upper seals (since I wont be pulling engine).. On a separate note, my only confusion is the clutch housing dust cover. Mine is seen better days so I will be replacing. The rubber or what seems to be cloth is riveted and if you fellas or gals know where I can find one would be great to know. I 've searched for hours last night and can't seem to find one. It covers where the oil pan rear meets the clutch housing. I'm not even sure if I identified it correctly as the clutch housing seal.. LOL Quote
Jerry Roberts Posted November 1, 2018 Report Posted November 1, 2018 The clutch inspection pan or clutch cover pan has a thick felt seal . One member got some felt from a fabric store and made his own . Quote
dangulo Posted November 12, 2018 Author Report Posted November 12, 2018 A little bit of progress this weekend, the lower control arm kit came in the mail (yay). Also, I got the king pins back from machine shop which were pressed and done right! They look really good and have no play so pretty excited about how they turned out.. The spindle bottom holes and steering arms have also been drilled/tapped for my Rustyhope disc brake set up. Next paycheck will be to order the upper control arm kit which I was able to find some NOSR american made parts.. But will still need to find some eccentric bushings. Here are some pics of how its looking at the moment. Quote
dangulo Posted November 24, 2018 Author Report Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) Happy thanksgiving to all, this was a great week here with family and friends. In addition, I was to be able to sneak away and work on the C25.. I was able to finally attach the lower control arms with new bushings/seals on both sides and so now to move on the upper control arms. Luckily I was able to find some american made Moog NOSR parts for the upper shafts w/bushings as well as NOSR eccentric bushing for both sides. Nothing against anything new nowadays but some of my experience with "new" parts made overseas has not been or worked for me the best. On the other hand, still looking for tie rods both inner/outer so any insight with positive feedback where to buy would be helpful... In the meantime while waiting for parts to come in...clutch cover before and after with my HB parts cleaner in action.. Next I plan to move onto the oil pan, which I been trying to remove little dents here and there... not to bad but after using my grinder with a wire wheel its starting to look promising. This is probably a good time to experiment with engine colors which I am leaning for bronze or copper color... well see as how that "pans" out... Edited November 24, 2018 by dangulo Quote
40desoto Posted November 24, 2018 Report Posted November 24, 2018 Im not sure If I missed the info in between one of your previous posts, but what brake kit are you using? Im working on a 1940 desoto coupe,installed fatman dropped uprights, and using the scarbird disk brake kit. What master cylinder are you planning on using? Quote
dangulo Posted November 26, 2018 Author Report Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) @40desoto I am going with rustyhope brake kit. Already purchased the parts needed for full conversion (from parts list) other than master cylinder. Since the front end needed a full rebuild my brake conversion has drifted to a full front end rebuild, so in other words, I haven't focused on the master cylinder yet... I know I need to but will do when I get there.. Man I also wanted to go with fatman dropped uprights but since the front end needed a full rebuilt I needed to shift the funds to making safe and fun to drive... My plan is to lower the front just enough where the wheel well meets the whitewall so to get there will be to either cut coils or purchase shorter coils. Ya will definitely be interested on what you end up going with... Will be looking out for that so please post share your insights on a master cylinder. Edited November 26, 2018 by dangulo Quote
Los_Control Posted November 26, 2018 Report Posted November 26, 2018 11 minutes ago, dangulo said: where the wheel well meets the whitewall I feel a song coming on here 2 Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 26, 2018 Report Posted November 26, 2018 many are finding Aerostar coils a good install...remember, you can relocate your spring pockets to below the a-arm...combination of all three may get you where you need to go.. 1 Quote
dangulo Posted November 27, 2018 Author Report Posted November 27, 2018 @Plymouthy Adams thanks for the heads up, I've also seen some use moog p/n 8234 Here are some of the specs I found https://www.fmmotorparts.com/fmstorefront/federalmogul/en/USD/Suspension/Coil-Spring-Sets%2C-Seats%2C-and-Insulators/CS-CoilSpringSet/MOOG-Coil-Spring-Set/p/AMGCC850?categoryCode=CSCoilSpringSet#.W_2DaWhKiUk If I have mis-quoted please correct me 8234: Dimension - ID 3.88 inches Bar Dia 0.62 inches Spring Rate/lbs - 283 Load - lbs - 1668 Installed Height - 10.50 inches Free Height - 16.31 inches CC850: Dimension - ID 4.07 inches Bar Dia 0.75 inches Spring Rate/lbs - 605 Load - lbs - 1825 Installed Height - 8.75 inches Free Height - 11.65 inches The obvious difference is height and spring rate.. .Now I need to do further research on my 1940 Chrysler specs and try to interpret how spring rate and height get me to where I want... Also, sorry if this is an obvious question but what exactly is the spring pockets? Is that the same as insulator? If so mine had both upper and lower insulators along with a spacer only onthe driver side... weird but that's what i found LoL. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 27, 2018 Report Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) the lower a-arm.....the seat for the spring is often called the pocket....as the spring nestles in there, this triangular plate can be removed from the top of the a-arm and relocated to the bottom....many here have reportedly done that and has lowered their vehicle a tad more in the process....just something you may wish to consider....look it over closely and make your call...maybe a couple who have done this will chime in....unfortunately I do not have a close up pic of the a-arm to display here either stock or modified with reference to moving mount to lower side Edited December 15, 2018 by Plymouthy Adams 1 Quote
Andydodge Posted November 27, 2018 Report Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) Plymouthy's A Arm suggestion is a good one to lower the front of the car, however I cut one coil from the original front springs on my 1941 Plymouth which uses essentially the same front suspension as well as installing 2" thick square steel lowering blocks on the rear springs........the attached pic shows the height that the car ended up at, this was with 15 x 6, 15 x 7 Wheel Vintiques Chrome smoothies and 195/75 x 15 and 235/75 x 15 Coker Classic Whitewall radials..........the wheels had the standard as delivered offset and neither front or back tyres or rims hit inner or outer wheel arches or suspension.............with the cut coils the ride was fairly harsh but I intended to get new coils either made or from something else, but I sold the car so shite happens..............lol..........5yrs on and I still think I was a dope for selling it...........duh!............lol...........andyd Edited November 27, 2018 by Andydodge 1 Quote
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