Rack and pinion steering for 46 Plymouth

[ply 51]

I have a 340 in my p22 with a a500 overdrive out of a Dakota (85) It is fine when driving but brutal when parking. I would be intereted in the brkt setup as I'm not sure where to start.

I setup my brakes with a hyda boost out of a Astro van and am running it through the power steering pump I feel the pressure in the pump is high and a little hot  but working well. That part is done. I figure I will shorten the steering shaft near the firewall because right now it is very close to the exhaust manifold.  It is time to put the car away this coming week so the swap won't be untill spring. I like to get my parts and bits together before jumping in with both feet so I will have time to do that.

Thanks for help it is appreciated.

 

Barry

 

[DJ194950]

Might look at something like these to help with pressure on power steer pumps for R&P setups. Maybe some help??

 

DJ

 

20 hours ago, rvannoy1 said:

 I had both (sport & standard) from scrap yards and realized the sport steering ratio was not for my P15 with the weight of a 354 Hemi. I also installed a manual Cavalier rack and, much to my dismay, I could barely turn the steering wheel while the car was sitting on the garage floor. I still  have mounts welded to my frame for both racks as the manual rack, passenger side mount is approx. 2 inches closer to center than the power rack. I left both mounting brackets in just in case I change the engine someday to a much lighter small block Mopar.

 I will tell you that I've been struggling with my type II GM power steering pump to find the proper pressure and volume that works best with the extra weight of the engine and also the fact that I fabricated new, shorter steering arms to correct for the turning radius that the original steering arms would produce. When you get further along with your conversion let me know if you would like a drawing of my steering arms and mounting brackets. I can also send you photos of the installation if need be.

 

Regards,

Ron

 

ADJUSTABLE POWER STEERING VALVE (PS-101) - HEIDTS®.html

Mustang II Power Steering Flow Valve for GM Pump, 2 GPM.html

[rvannoy1]

 Thanks DJ, I found the pressure adjusting valve, but a little steep in price. I have also used the modified orifice fitting which allowed me to get (oh so) close to having the proper volume so as not to be twitchy, or quick steering, going down the highway. I think the oriface I have in there now is .094 and it seems just about right.

 Thanks for the info. FYI, TURN ONE STEERING has some real good tech articles on the type II pump.

 

Ron

[YukonJack]

On 10/20/2018 at 9:35 PM, rvannoy1 said:

 I had both (sport & standard) from scrap yards and realized the sport steering ratio was not for my P15 with the weight of a 354 Hemi. I also installed a manual Cavalier rack and, much to my dismay, I could barely turn the steering wheel while the car was sitting on the garage floor. I still  have mounts welded to my frame for both racks as the manual rack, passenger side mount is approx. 2 inches closer to center than the power rack. I left both mounting brackets in just in case I change the engine someday to a much lighter small block Mopar.

 I will tell you that I've been struggling with my type II GM power steering pump to find the proper pressure and volume that works best with the extra weight of the engine and also the fact that I fabricated new, shorter steering arms to correct for the turning radius that the original steering arms would produce. When you get further along with your conversion let me know if you would like a drawing of my steering arms and mounting brackets. I can also send you photos of the installation if need be.

 

Regards,

Ron

I'd be interested in seeing the steering arms.

[rvannoy1]

  Hey Yukon Jack, I just sent you a PM. Hope you can read them.

 

 

Ron

[DrDoctor]

59bisquik,

   Not to divert anyone’s topic, but with regard to the suspension in your provided photo of 07 April, 2018 – specifically the A-arms, and the upper pivot-shaft – what’s their origin??? Thx.

[Andydodge]

Doc.......I think 59Biscuits pic is of his 54 Frod Coupe front end, at least thats what I understood it to be...........looking at the pic again I must admit the angle of the steering column shaft has me perplexed but the rest of it and the mounting arrangement of the rack and the tie rod pivot points seem o/k for that type of front end to me............andyd 

[mrwrstory]

11 hours ago, Andydodge said:

Doc.......I think 59Biscuits pic is of his 54 Frod Coupe front end, at least thats what I understood it to be...........looking at the pic again I must admit the angle of the steering column shaft has me perplexed but the rest of it and the mounting arrangement of the rack and the tie rod pivot points seem o/k for that type of front end to me............andyd 

The input shaft of the Citation R & P is near vertical because the rack is quite close to the firewall in the stock Citation application. It requires an extreme correction via multiple U-joints.  Pretty goofy looking solution in my opinion and I couldn't bring myself accept that appearance 'tho others find it quite satisfactory. in application.  That was many years ago and I'm thinking that others like Borgeson or Flaming River may now have an alternative solution.

[Andydodge]

Yeh, looking at it again the angle that the center steer plate projects forward makes the steering column exit at that strange angle.....a way to solve this would seem to rotate the rack back, say, 15-20 degrees pointing the steering shaft at a more direct angle however then the center steer plate would be angled up torward the radiator , however the plate could be arranged so that the tierods attached in a way that corrected this.......I know that these center steer racks all seem to be mounted up high or in some similar way on the firewall in OEM applications...........interesting..............andyd    

[rvannoy1]

 

On 10/21/2018 at 6:18 AM, ply 51 said:

I have a 340 in my p22 with a a500 overdrive out of a Dakota (85) It is fine when driving but brutal when parking. I would be intereted in the brkt setup as I'm not sure where to start.

I setup my brakes with a hyda boost out of a Astro van and am running it through the power steering pump I feel the pressure in the pump is high and a little hot  but working well. That part is done. I figure I will shorten the steering shaft near the firewall because right now it is very close to the exhaust manifold.  It is time to put the car away this coming week so the swap won't be untill spring. I like to get my parts and bits together before jumping in with both feet so I will have time to do that.

Thanks for help it is appreciated.

 

Barry

 

 Barry,

I will try sending photos to you of what I did for my P15. 

 Regards,

Ron

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by rvannoy1

[mrwrstory]

Just thinkin,.....why not a plate on the Citation rack that instead of just being a flat plate adapting the diff. hole spacing,.... a piece of angled steel, (maybe with a 135 degree angle) with the holes for the Citation in one surface and the holes for the P15 tie rods in the other surface allowing  you to tilt the input shaft 45 degrees toward the P15 column ?  

Hope you get the picture and assume the angles I suggested might need to be refined.

Attached drawing is the concept of what I'm trying to suggest.

[rvannoy1]

Duplicate, sorry.

Edited October 27, 2018 by rvannoy1
duplicate

[rvannoy1]

mrwrstory,

 

 Here is another way that might work.

http://www.route66hotrodhigh.com/RnPMisadventure.html

[blucarsdn]

I do not understand the thinking that still prevails with car builders that insist on using parts from junked vehicle to improve the steering and handling of their intended masterpiece.

I researched the options very carefully before I altered the front steering, braking and suspension on my '39 Plym conv coupe. After listening to the "Old School" used parts cadre, I settled on new components from a reliable after-market supplier.

I used a FatMan stage 3 w/power rack and 12" disk brakes... Why FatMan? Because they are one of the few suppliers that have an assembly for the Chrysler built vehicles.

I also had the work done by an ASE certified shop. Think about it, your life depends on the quality of the parts and the person that fabricated the mess together.

[mrwrstory]

I believe Fat man uses the Citation rack.  'Tho very much like GM did it, It's still looks funky which was my problem with it. My suggestion does not assume used parts.

[Andydodge]

Blucars.......the use of 2nd hand, pre used, used or junked parts is quite o/k so long as you, the person using them chooses wisely, ie, if the car has been in a front accident them its possible that those parts from the front of the car will have sustained damage, likewise the reverse is true, another factor to consider is that when some of these modifications were done the aftermarket industry for our particular vehicles just didn't exist.............my 1940 Dodge has been a hotrod since 1973, I installed the 318 Poly V8 & auto, etc and by 1975/76 it also had 4 wheel disc brakes and a rack & pinion steering and so far 40 yrs later its going fine...........parts included both 2nd hand & new..........andyd     

[Plymouthy Adams]

20 minutes ago, Andydodge said:

Blucars.......the use of 2nd hand, pre used, used or junked parts is quite o/k so long as you, the person using them chooses wisely, ie, if the car has been in a front accident them its possible that those parts from the front of the car will have sustained damage, likewise the reverse is true, another factor to consider is that when some of these modifications were done the aftermarket industry for our particular vehicles just didn't exist.............my 1940 Dodge has been a hotrod since 1973, I installed the 318 Poly V8 & auto, etc and by 1975/76 it also had 4 wheel disc brakes and a rack & pinion steering and so far 40 yrs later its going fine...........parts included both 2nd hand & new..........andyd     

one has to be comfortable with their own level of knowledge and abilities.....some always have reservations and there is nothing wrong with letting the skilled man/shop do the job in these instances....it actually is a better approach than that of a many of cobbled jobs one sees day after day of those who think they are accomplished.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Plymouthy Adams

[Adam H P15 D30]

16 hours ago, Andydodge said:

Blucars.......the use of 2nd hand, pre used, used or junked parts is quite o/k so long as you, the person using them chooses wisely, ie, if the car has been in a front accident them its possible that those parts from the front of the car will have sustained damage, likewise the reverse is true, another factor to consider is that when some of these modifications were done the aftermarket industry for our particular vehicles just didn't exist.............my 1940 Dodge has been a hotrod since 1973, I installed the 318 Poly V8 & auto, etc and by 1975/76 it also had 4 wheel disc brakes and a rack & pinion steering and so far 40 yrs later its going fine...........parts included both 2nd hand & new..........andyd     

Also, a lot of times used factory parts are much better than offshore so called new parts. 

 

Adam

[DrDoctor]

   Another issue overlooked is with the preponderance of “front suspension” kits is their being based on the Ford Mustang II. That design was intended for a rather light weight vehicle. Putting such a system on a much heavier car isn’t the wisest choice. Further, the original Mustang II system has usually been modified, the most common of which is the use of an extremely long bolt as the pivot shaft for the lower control arm. The one’s I’ve seen appeared to be grade-5, and on critical applications, and I think a car’s suspension qualifies as a “critical application”, I’d only use grade-8. I’ve heard, and seen failures of that long bolt, and of the welded lower control arm, with predicable results – no deaths, or serious injuries, to individuals (thankfully!!!), but with major damage to the vehicles (in 1 case, the damage was catastrophic). A safer alternative is to “clip” the frame, utilizing diagonal cuts, and fish-plates with rosette openings for strength upon assembly. Lastly, the use of welding equipment, and if need be, an experienced welder, to ensure the task is accomplished with maximum strength and safety. Regards . . . . .

[ply 51]

On 10/26/2018 at 9:09 AM, rvannoy1 said:

 

 Barry,

I will try sending photos to you of what I did for my P15. 

 Regards,

Ron

 

Hi Ron, soory for not getting back sooner. Thanks for the pics. I will look closely at the drawings and

try to figure out if it will work for the P22 .Here is the car

 

[James_Douglas]

I would love to use a R&P in the Desoto next year when I start working on it.  But, non of the usual suspects has a rack that is designed to take the load of a 4500 pound car.  I talked to all the rack makers an they have nothing for a car over 4000.

 

James

[rvannoy1]

19 hours ago, ply 51 said:

 

 Nice ride. Good luck with your conversion.

 

Regards,

Ron

[Hokie]

The '96-2001 Chrysler E Class (300M, Concord, Intrepid, Vision) similar rack but a bit heavier. This rack 3-1/8 turns lock to lock vs GM 2-7/8 LTL, only comes as power rack but with Mopar engine a better match with stock Mopar power steering pump.  '98 & newer rack has different bolt spacing on mounting bracket but otherwise same rack. Plan is to shorten the late model tie rods and avoid having to fabricate mounting plate at the rack. Steering arms on LHS 4.75" vs 5.25" on Dodge so will increase turning radius a bit.

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, Hokie said:

The '96-2001 Chrysler E Class (300M, Concord, Intrepid, Vision) similar rack but a bit heavier. This rack 3-1/8 turns lock to lock vs GM 2-7/8 LTL, only comes as power rack but with Mopar engine a better match with stock Mopar power steering pump.  '98 & newer rack has different bolt spacing on mounting bracket but otherwise same rack. Plan is to shorten the late model tie rods and avoid having to fabricate mounting plate at the rack. Steering arms on LHS 4.75" vs 5.25" on Dodge so will increase turning radius a bit.

Except the Intrepid and the like are front steer racks, we need a rear steer one.

[nunez]

has anyone done a r&p conversion on a 1961 newport?