Old mopar's. What do I need to know?

[Uberchin]

http://www.oldmoparts.com/fluid-drive-information.aspx

[greg g]

Where upstate?  Cuz from central NY any where south of a!baby is down state.  You stated the DeSoto you are considering is fluid drive.  But fluid drive came with two distinct transmissions bolted to then.  A standard three speed and a dual range semi auto with two gears in each range.  Neither are performance drivetrains.  Molars were noted for torque more than power.  Also. Dodge, Plymouth and ,Dodge light trucks used a 23 1/2 head length engine While Chrysler and DeSoto used a 25 inch.  Cars made in Canada all used 25.  Go to the AllPar website,search transmissions and you can familiarize your self with the TipToe M6 semi auto trans.  Many early 40's DeS had fluid drive and a three speed, while later 40's and 50'smostly had the semi auto.  Both are good transmissions and  most semi problems result from faulty wiring all fixable from outside the case.  If you will be satisfied with rock steady reliability, smooth highway, ride 15 to 17 mpg and zero to 60 in 20 + seconds. The DeSoto may be just you ticket.  Plenty of room for kids and pets took.

[matt167]

Slightly south west of Albany. Interesting about the engine length differences. Not too much concern as the engines are still out there, and the one in the car has receipts for a .060 over rebuild that is fairly recent. The Desoto if it is what I think it is, will check every box of my needs. I miss having a couch for a front seat..

 

My current daily driver, and what will continue to be my true daily is a 1992 Suzuki Carry Kei truck that has been imported from Japan directly. About 10' long, 50" wide and not much to look at. Just a boxy Japanese cab over that with it's 660cc engine and 5spd transmission is not the fastest thing with all of 45hp will do 55mph. It gets about 39mpg however, but I need a break from it's bleak styling, lack of room and lack of utter lack of comfort. The engine IS a HEMI though.

Edited February 8, 2018 by matt167

[dpollo]

Back in the sixties I used to tell my friends that they should never knock a Stovebolt Chev as they would eventually knock all on their own.  However, at this late date the inherent weaknesses of each company's designs are well documented.   It was our duty as teenagers to find these weaknesses and we all worked hard at it.  That a car of the late 40s/ early 50s has survived this long has to be some sort of tribute to its manufacturer.  I am now on my fourth 50 Plymouth in over 50 years and have covered  at least 300 000 miles under all weather and road conditions. I have never tired of driving this particular car with its (to my eye) good looks, gorgeous dashboard and unsurpassed reliability.  Rust killed the first three but the present one is never exposed to salty roads. It should outlast me.

Good luck.

[matt167]

Well, I looked at this car and everything the guy said it was, really wasn't.. The plusses were it was fairly solid all the bones were there, only a small amount of hokey amature fixes in the rear tail panel.. He really did rebuild the engine .060 over BUT, even he suggested it may have a bottom end knock and I could faintly hear it. Valves were way out. Tip Toe transmission worked flawless, but him saying " everything worked " was a lie. It was functional enough to drive, but temp, oil pressure and ammeter, fuel pressure and speedometer were all non functioning as well as directional indicators. He had a cheap sunpro temp gauge that did work.. Rebuilt brakes meant that he just got them working. He did not even replace the clutch with the engine out. The really bad part was he was listing $4k but was saying he wanted $5k, and took me saying I was willing to pay $4k as an offer he would have to consider... At $4k, it was even above what I thought it was worth. Paint was horrible,  looked like cottage cheese and was flaking off. I knew right away it was contaminated enamel from lack of prep ( BTDT ).. All in all, I was in at $4k but the guy was a plain old CL flake. If it were my car, I'd have been ok with $3,200.

Edited February 9, 2018 by matt167

[knuckleharley]

10 minutes ago, matt167 said:

Well, I looked at this car and everything the guy said it was, really wasn't.. The plusses were it was fairly solid all the bones were there, only a small amount of hokey amature fixes in the rear tail panel.. He really did rebuild the engine .060 over BUT, even he suggested it may have a bottom end knock and I could faintly hear it. Valves were way out. Tip Toe transmission worked flawless, but him saying " everything worked " was a lie. It was functional enough to drive, but temp, oil pressure and ammeter, fuel pressure and speedometer were all non functioning as well as directional indicators. He had a cheap sunpro temp gauge that did work.. Rebuilt brakes meant that he just got them working. He did not even replace the clutch with the engine out. The really bad part was he was listing $4k but was saying he wanted $5k, and took me saying I was willing to pay $4k as an offer he would have to consider... At $4k, it was even above what I thought it was worth. Paint was horrible,  looked like cottage cheese and was flaking off. I knew right away it was contaminated enamel from lack of prep ( BTDT ).. All in all, I was in at $4k but the guy was a plain old CL flake. If it were my car, I'd have been ok with $3,200.

Well,it's your money and it will or will not be your car,so don't pay a dime more than you think it is worth to you or you will never be happy with it.

[keithb7]

Sounds like a waste of time. I dislike experiences like this. It frustrates me when sellers lie. Good job knowing what you were looking at. Buyer beware they say. 

[matt167]

Yeah. I was willing to go $4k. I would have still felt ok at $4k, but the $5k curveball... Honestly I felt like Rick Harris during the negotiation, it was just plain weird, A CL transaction should not feel like an auction.  A mint restored '49 Desoto went through Barrett Jackson for $7,100 not that long ago, and there is a restored '50 Dodge not far away for $7,500.. For the matter, a restored 1937 Chevy master sedan in his area is going for $5k

 

I see he actually did up his price to "$5,000 FIRM" as of yesterday, and he knew I was coming since Tuesday, so he obviously bumped the price knowing I was coming.

[greg g]

One nice thing about fluid drive is clutches never wear out as you only use them to go between gears.  The fluid drive allows for idle while engaged.  There is probably another one out there some where.

[matt167]

Yup. Contacting the others I found. and my budget goes up every paycheck anyway. Got lots of time

[Uberchin]

The way that I always look at while buying classic cars is...even if it looks really good when I buy it, I'm still going to dump a good amount of money into it to make it perfect for ME. I think you made the right decision to pass on the deal. I found mine through a car club that I'm in and going to the local cruise ins.

[keithb7]

True. No matter what I buy, I too going theough it. If not money then I invest time. Its a fun hobby that I enjoy. Plus the reassurance that I can safely take it on further distances from home. 

[matt167]

yeah, just the one big expense I saw right away with the car was it had 7.50x15 LT truck tires on the rear. DOT code was either 1986 or 1996. I don't know how to tell decades apart on 3 digit codes.. Since I work in a tire shop, that does not fly as a tire for a driver and a set of tires would run at least $400 if I just bought whatever. I discard any tire I own older than 5 years... Then getting the gauges working. list and cost goes on and up

Edited February 9, 2018 by matt167

[MackTheFinger]

1 hour ago, Uberchin said:

The way that I always look at while buying classic cars is...even if it looks really good when I buy it, I'm still going to dump a good amount of money into it to make it perfect for ME. I think you made the right decision to pass on the deal. I found mine through a car club that I'm in and going to the local cruise ins.

Wow! We should all have such a great looking car!!

[Dartgame]

The key is patience. Keep looking you will find something you like. My preference was for a two door coupe, as rust free as possible. Well, I got the rust free part, 2 doors, and very low miles. Keep looking !

 

The toughest part of working on an old mopar are the rear brakes. This is due to the tapered axle shaft rear end. The rear brake service and adjustment requires expensive special tools too, and it can be a hair raising experience to get the rear drums off. If you have the tools its apparently okay setting up new brakes.

 

The result ? A lot of folks here - I think - have switched to disc brakes on the front and retained the oem rear brake system, or installed a late model axle that uses modern style drums or disc brakes. For me - I chose to swap the oem rear over to disc brakes as well, mainly because of the low miles - it works fine and its already there. 

 

Outside of the rear brake drum removal and set up (probably not too different than others from the era), the mopes were always better engineered. 

[Young Ed]

2 minutes ago, Dartgame said:

The key is patience. Keep looking you will find something you like. My preference was for a two door coupe, as rust free as possible. Well, I got the rust free part, 2 doors, and very low miles. Keep looking !

 

The toughest part of working on an old mopar are the rear brakes. This is due to the tapered axle shaft rear end. The rear brake service and adjustment requires expensive special tools too, and it can be a hair raising experience to get the rear drums off. If you have the tools its apparently okay setting up new brakes.

 

The result ? A lot of folks here - I think - have switched to disc brakes on the front and retained the oem rear brake system, or installed a late model axle that uses modern style drums or disc brakes. For me - I chose to swap the oem rear over to disc brakes as well, mainly because of the low miles - it works fine and its already there. 

 

Outside of the rear brake drum removal and set up (probably not too different than others from the era), the mopes were always better engineered. 

that tapered drum was used for decades. Dads early 80s CJ7 had it. So it's uncommon now but it certainly was common place for a long time

[matt167]

I knew about the tapered drums. I've done them before.. I've got a couple cars I'm going to look at, but whatever I get is going to be 'right'

[belvedere666]

Desoto would by my last choice of any of the Mopar cars of this era. Not because they aren’t beautiful.

i think they might be my favorites as far as looks go, but finding parts for these cars can be a daunting task. Most mechanical parts wouldn’t be too difficult, as they share a motor with the Chrysler (not the plymouth or dodge.... typically), but body and trim parts on a desoto are NOT the easiest to find. (I could be wrong and some people here may not agree with me. But my dad knew a guy that had a desoto and had me looking for trim parts for him. What I DID find was going for crazy money) 

 You can walk into a church and trip over Chevy parts, but these mopars require work and that’s half the fun.

[matt167]

Yeah, that was another thing I saw on that car. trim was in tact and in good shape except for the center trunk light lense which had a big hole and I know those things are not reproduced..

 

I have a line on a few 1950 Coronets and Meadowbrooks that I'm following up on

[matt167]

So. Looking at a '50 Plymo Special dlx coupe. Not restored but solid original and has been garaged since at least 1980 and is wearing original paint in good condition. Completely gone through. Needs rocker panels. Guy said inners and outers are both shot but floor and frame are perfect. I have a good body shop guy that rather likes old cars and he's a friend. But how are the reproduction rockers? He can bend up a set I know, but they list about $40 per side so if there close that has to be worth something.. I could do rockers myself but I couldn't get them perfect or get the paint blended right so that's what pro's get paid for.

[greg g]

Like most repops they need fiddling with before they fit. Most reports here of people using them suggest they are not exact fit, and cuz every car rusts differently some require more fiddling than others. Probably still a good start for the investment.

[matt167]

Cool, should be workable. I bought JC Whitney 1/4 panels for a '67 Falcon that I had which was at the time the only supplier. They were not even full 1/4's and then they were not even close to being right. Ended up using the bottom body line, which was all that was right on them

[Dartgame]

Plymouth doctor in Perry MI., sells those parts, and I see them on ebay as well.

 

We used Plymouth doctors stuff, to correct an old collision repair - and found his rocker parts to be of good quality - same gauge as oem, but as noted above needed some tweaking. I think he has someone repopping parts in Detroit.

[matt167]

Well I got the old Plymouth. Going to be a few weeks before I can go back up to get it but post pics when I do get it. I stupidly did not take pictures

[belvedere666]

30 minutes ago, matt167 said:

Well I got the old Plymouth. Going to be a few weeks before I can go back up to get it but post pics when I do get it. I stupidly did not take pictures

The  1950? Thats a great car. I have a Special Deluxe 4 door sedan