Headlights... sealed with replaceable lamps?

[fede]

Hello!

Where I live is now impossible to get 6 volt sealed beams, so I was about to buy a pair from ebay.  Talking about it with my father, we thought about using headlights that look like sealed beams but have replaceable lamps inside.

The reasoning is this: the car currently has the original 6 volt electric system, but maybe it'd be good to convert it to 12 when something breaks.  In that case, having relpaceable lamps would save us from the change of the whole sealed beams, just the lamps.

Has anyone tried this kind of headlights? are they any good? I doubt they'll look right, and also that they'll work properly, maybe those will be worse than true 6 volt sealed beams?

 

Thanks for your help!

[Young Ed]

There are DIY articles to take the bullseye lenses off the metal backing and turning them into lights that take replaceable bulbs. Sounds like you'd just need the lights those guys are using as donors. I believe they also have 6v or 12v bulbs for them. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

H4 style PAR56

[Mark D]

Our shop is prepping a P15 in the Netherlands at the moment for delivery to a customer in Luxembourg. The MOT will not accept sealed beam headlamps so we just bought a pair of these to install.

[Los_Control]

here ya go

p15-d24.com/topic/43179-bulls-eye-headlight-retrofit/

 

[Young Ed]

anyone explain why they don't allow  sealed beams?

[Plymouthy Adams]

4 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

anyone explain why they don't allow  sealed beams?

Lucas is still King.......lol

[rallyace]

Years ago I was told that the Europeans determined that if you do not have to remove the headlight from the mount then the alignment would not drastically change with a bulb change, thus the replaceable bulbs. FWIW, it is easier to change the headlight bulb on a European manufactured car than any Asian or US designed car that I have worked on.

[fede]

thanks for the answers! 

@Mark D, I'm looking at them on ebay but they look kind of flat, maybe it's the photo? was the light they made any good? compared to the originals

I'm quite sure that sealed beams are acceptable here... but the car has not been to an inspection in the last 20 or 25 years, I might have to check

[medium_jon]

Interesting that @fede started this topic tonight. I have spent the past 90 minutes researching the same ideas. 12V is in my near future (my son wants radio and our Mopar 604 is back from South Texas Antique Electronics waiting on 12v power). 

I saw those lights and also thought the lenses were pretty flat.   

What I have learned thus far...

'Original' replacements were part 6006

in the later 50's the number changed to 6012 for 12 volt style. Those were then superseded by 6014. 

You can also find 7" par56 bulbs with item 6024. 

H4 seems to be _the_ standard replaceable bulb for the non-sealed beam versions of the above. And for the wild ones amongst us (might be me) they have LED and HID versions of the H4 bulbs. 

It seems like the H4 route would need a new headlamp wiring harness as the original mopar 1297667 6V sealed beam uses a different pin configuration than the H4

[fede]

@medium_jon, I had assumed that the connector would be the same.  Is it smaller? or is it a different pattern?

I know it's kind of nit pick, but I don't really want them to be too flat (we are also adding auxiliary lights to add a bit, so there's that)

[59bisquik]

The ones shown above are virtually flat lenses. Those look identical to the ones it took apart to make my bulls eye conversions as in the link posted above.

[Andydodge]

My understanding is that the 7" sealed beam headlights were introduced US industry wide for the 1940 model year, obviously as 6volt and that they had a standardised 3 lug mount on the rear edge of the molded lens and a standardised 3 pin wiring plug........apart from the change to 12 volts in 1955/56 the actual headlight itself was not changed apart from maybe an increase in wattage and is essentially the same item size etc even today..............I'm not sure when the halogen H4 headlight was introduced but the earliest I can remember seeing them was those fitted to the early 70's Volvo 164 which used Bosch H4's...........all H4's that I am aware of are known here in Oz as Semi Sealed Beams due to them having a separate replaceable halogen globe, all the H4's that I have seen use the same 3 prong bayonet fitting that the 7" sealed beam light use.......at least here in Oz they did and do as its just a matter of swapping the lights , whether they be 6 or 12 volt, sealed or semi seled beams, normal or H4's....they all fit into the same hole and use the same 3 prong plug.......the only real difference to look at is the H4's have a flatter lens when viewed in side profile............My Oz 1940 Dodge has had the original 6volt sealed beams, then 12 volt sealed beams then 12 volt Bosch H4's and now 12 volt Hella H4's this is over a 46yrs period from September 1971 when I bought it using the same 1940 Dodge headlight buckets without modification.............unless you can get the H4's with a similar wattage to the original sealed beam lights I'd be careful about just installing the 12 volt H4's and hoping for the best..........when I installed the 318 V8 in my Dodge in 1973 I kept the 318 12 volt generator but installed the 100 watt h4 headlights.......... I found very soon that the generator was having trouble keeping the battery charged when I was travelling overnight to rod runs and a couple of times I ended up flattening the battery.........lol.........I installed a Lucas alternator of I think 60amps capacity, not sure now but its worked fine, also the headlights are wired thru a relay............anyway dunno if any of this helps.............btw the pic showing the Hella headlights shows a small black dot inside the lens........these lamps had a fitting to allow a parking light globe which I didn't use and removed using a rubber plug to plug the hole................regards, andyd  .        

Edited August 10, 2017 by Andydodge
more info

[Mark D]

On 8/9/2017 at 10:16 PM, Young Ed said:

anyone explain why they don't allow  sealed beams?

The law states that if a rock hits the outer glass lens, the inner bulb must stay illuminated.

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Mark D

[Ward Duffield]

The headlights on my '47 DeSoto are H4 halogens, 6V bulbs in 7" housings. They are fed with a new 12 AWG line, running to a 6V  relay mounted on the inner fender, next to the terminal block. The relay is switched by the headlight switch on the dash. An easy mod and the light output is terrific. Also, no more red hot headlight switch.

[medium_jon]

1 hour ago, Andydodge said:

all the H4's that I have seen use the same 3 prong bayonet fitting that the 7" sealed beam light use..

That is great. Thanks @Andydodge

[Andydodge]

Looks like Wards DeSoto has the answer to Fedes problem..........andyd 

[Plymouthy Adams]

H4 combinations are everywhere...many today are resin backed, rosin lenses...try to go for metal backing and glass lenses..you will be happier.  The very style of crystal cut comes into play, modern stuff is very different if the pattern on the glass compared to yesteryear...you will more than not want to remain with the establish pattern for your era just for looks, modern also incorporates running lamps which may be an item you desire.  Some of the big names in H4 lighting is Hella, Lucas, Cibie.....most flat lenses as you pictured are European and have no alignments cast into the facing for aiming....why they were illegal years ago and was changed when imported.  Being in S.A. you may not have these concerns/limitations.   The H4 Par56 physical size of the bulb base is the same 6 or 12.  If you increase your wattage from that of factory specified for your car, you may need to change wiring to handle the increase in amperage.  relays are your friend here also as you will wish to remove the flow of current from the H/L switch and use it only to power the relay on.  Only one relay is needed if placed before the dimmer switch, the ole stomper if you will.

[Andydodge]

One other thing I'll mention is the Bosch H4's I used were great as far as illumination and fit etc but after about 30yrs I had to replace them as the reflector started to rust inside at the bottom on both reflectors, initially it was only small and only on the inside with no rust on the back of the lamp but after a couple of yrs I had to replace them as it had crept up about 1/2" from the bottom tho' still only on the inside and was very obvious to the extent that at the annual rego check it was mentioned & requested that the lights would have to be replaced .......unfortunately I couldn't get the Bosch H4's locally so had to settle for the Hellas which are o/k but had those parking light fittings which I mentioned and plugged with a rubber plug and can be seen in the pic.........andyd  

[Plymouthy Adams]

I agree Andy, have never been fond of the parking bulb in the headlight....I have a nice set of Lucas PL7's and some flat face Hella's from an imported Porsche and had a NIB Cibie Z-beam given to me....took about 9 years or better to find another NIB Cibie Z-beam to match that one...the lenses with the big black C are hard to come by

[Ward Duffield]

the issue with reflector corrosion and loss of output (early cars used silver-plated brass reflectors, cork gaskets (biodegradable), and glass lenses) is exactly why the sealed beams were mandated in the US, starting with the 1940 model year. The 39's have some cool stying involved in their treatment of the lenses, etc. for headlights, but that was effectively ended in 1940.

Now that the stylists have free rein again, many extremely stylish headlights are out there. Too bad they don't all do a good job of lighting the road. My PT is an example; The DeSoto has twice the nighttime road visibility of my 2010 PT.

[Plymouthy Adams]

may be time to clean the PT lenses and do a proper alignment.....acrylic lenses lose a lot and lose it fast..I hae always wondered who in DOT got paid off for allowing these to begin with....probably on some exotic island with the girls from about 15 of us poor boys dreams....

Edited August 11, 2017 by Plymouthy Adams

[Plymouthy Adams]

gotta love this........the ole black C cibie

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CIBIE-BOBI-7-HEADLAMP-NEW-NOS-H4-HALOGEN-HEADLIGHT-180mm-66-bmw-2002-porsche-/172538688798?epid=767738813&hash=item282c1b751e:g:8xEAAOSw0OBYKNHS&vxp=mtr

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=lucas+pl7&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xlucas+pl700.TRS0&_nkw=lucas+pl700&_sacat=0

 

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Plymouthy Adams

[medium_jon]

Mercy those Cibie's are expensive @Plymouthy Adams.  And I agree about those stupid plastic lenses on modern cars

@Ward Duffield, thanks for the history on the 1939 to 1940 changes. Neat stuff. 

[Mark D]

@fede i got these in the mail on Friday. They'll be off to our garage in the NL tomorrow. I'll have my mechanic send photos when they are installed. 

forst observations, good quality. Looks like they will do the job well.