Running Out of Gas

[BIGBAND39]

Last night while I was driving around I learned the hard way that an eighth of a tank according to my gauge means that I'm out of gas. The indication was that she started to hestitate, ESPECIALLY if I tried to push her. She was able to make it to a gas station with a push for the last few feet. I filled up the car and she refused to start. I tried everything, including starting fluid. The fuel in the in-line filter was clear, as was the fuel in the fuel pump bowl. After waiting for Hagerty to find a tow solution for 5 hours, we finally got her home. I charged the battery for six hours, started her up the next day, and she started on the first crank with cloud of white smoke. I took her around the block and she ran perfectly! I let her sit and run for about a half hour to charge the battery, hopped back in, and when I drove her around I got the same symptoms as if she was running out of gas again. I parked her in the garage, turned her off, and she wouldn't start again. The generator is charging and in both cases she cranked over strong. Any ideas??

Edited July 17, 2016 by BIGBAND39

[Don Coatney]

Here is an idea. Change towing companies. I declined the towing add on when I insured my vehicles. From your report I am glad I did. I went with AAA. The few times my wife and I have used them the wait time was less than one hour.

 

Next time your car fails try cooling off the ignition coil with ice or cold water. If that works replace the coil.

[BIGBAND39]

Both of those are great ideas. LOL. On the bright side, we met a lot of nice people while we were stuck. Being stuck on the road, one of Providence's finest was gracious enough to sit with us and talk for three of the five hours. He made sure we were safe and deterred any riff raff from coming our way at 11pm.

Edited July 17, 2016 by BIGBAND39

[BIGBAND39]

Am I correct that the difference between a $165 coil for my 1939 and a $40 coil for a 1946 is the threads for the cap that hold the wire on?

[Jerry Roberts]

I often see NOS  6 volt coils selling for low $ on ebay .  The next time it seems to run out of gas , look down the throat of the carburator ( with the engine not running ) and move the throttle a full swing . If you don't see a good healthy stream of gas enter the carb ... you have a gas delivery problem . 

[BIGBAND39]

The funny thing is that she'll rev up strong with no issues at a stand still, but she'll choke up if I put a load on her. I'll definitely take a look.

[Young Ed]

Am I correct that the difference between a $165 coil for my 1939 and a $40 coil for a 1946 is the threads for the cap that hold the wire on?

 

Your coil would still be firewall mounted where a 46 is mounted to a bracket on the head

[BIGBAND39]

Mine is mounted to the firewall. :-/

[Young Ed]

Mine is mounted to the firewall. :-/

I believe the biggest difference there is the one coil wire is on the opposite end to be towards the interior. 

[dpollo]

 I think there is a very good chance the ignition coil is the culprit here, not fuel.

 

In the 50s,, my first car, a 35 Plymouth had an ignition coil which was faulty.  It would run fine when cold but refused to start when hot.

A rag dipped in creek water got me going.   I was just a kid driving on farm roads but it was a good lesson.  Later, a 40 Plymouth gave the same troubles as its original coil grew weaker.  Improved insulation materials have made this problem a thing of the past.

I choose reliability over authenticity when it comes to ignition coils.

[White Spyder]

Check any rubber fuel line hoses for softness and replace. I have seen what you are describing on several cars over the years. The hoses look good from the outside but inside they a bad and collapsing under load and starving the carb for gas. When the demand for fuel is reduced the hose opens up enough to allow flow to fill the line and carb. Thus you were able to run the car after a bit of rest.

Hope that helps!

[BIGBAND39]

I choose reliability over authenticity when it comes to ignition coils.

I would agree. Does anyone have any pictures of how they retrofitted a newer coil with my application?

[TodFitch]

I would agree. Does anyone have any pictures of how they retrofitted a newer coil with my application?

 

Some of the vintage replacements had an adaptor that would clamp the coil and then bolt into the firewall.

[BIGBAND39]

Would I buy a wire set for a '46+ to work with such a replacement? As I said, the plug wire is held on by a threaded collar on mine instead of a boot. I'll check and send a picture of my mounting situation.

[Plymouthy Adams]

weekly we see similar post of cars grinding to a halt and folks coming here for diagnosis.  You are your best mechanic at the time this happens and the following steps will give you an indication to the problem or at least enable you to inform the forum of the condition at the time of the fault..  You need three basic ingredients for the internal combustion engine to fire on compression, air, fuel and ignition....as we are assuming by your follow up report you continued to be able to breathe so we are taking the air availability out of the equation.  That leaves ignition and fuel.  Quick look at the shooter (accelerator pump) action should be a quick test for fuel  That leaves ignition.  Pull the coil wire and test for spark..if none or a very faint reddish spark you do not have enough energy from the coil to fire the plug under compression.  You can feel the coil for temp...while they run quite warm sue to the constant current drain of approx. 9 amps for saturation..you should not be able to light your cigarette off it waiting for the tow truck. 

 

As stated by others, quick cool down of the coil with a cooling agent..soaked wet cold rag or other items convenient and your spark returns or at minimum increase in spark voltage as in jumping a wider gap and increasing to a bluish look. You getting on track now with your cause of shut down.

 

I would also recommend that you become more attuned to the sights, sounds, temps and function of your components at temp and when running proper so to help you do a quick check.   Attention to these small detail may one day be the only reason you were able to limp home with a temp fix with money in your pocket to buy the replacement part instead of shelling out for a tow truck.

[BIGBAND39]

My coil looks to be recessed into the firewall and held by the same clamp that Tod had in his picture of the aftermarket coil.

[BIGBAND39]

Thanks for the tip, Plymouthy. I plan on running her tonight and keeping an ice pack handy to see if that makes a difference if the situation arises again. I wasn't aware that it would be evidence if the coil was not throwing the needed strength of spark that it's supposed to. I will also check on that as well. I realize it must be frustrating when the newbies come online and ask these questions. With some luck, I'll find a solution and I'll be able to help the newer guys coming online after me.

Edited July 17, 2016 by BIGBAND39

[BIGBAND39]

Check any rubber fuel line hoses for softness and replace. I have seen what you are describing on several cars over the years. The hoses look good from the outside but inside they a bad and collapsing under load and starving the carb for gas. When the demand for fuel is reduced the hose opens up enough to allow flow to fill the line and carb. Thus you were able to run the car after a bit of rest.

Hope that helps!

I had thought of that too, but figured that if the hoses were collapsing that they would do it all the time. When she first starts off, she runs really strong for a while with no issues.

[JerseyHarold]

Just saw this thread.   Any luck on the repairs?  If not, may it be a clogged fuel cap vent.  The fuel pump can't pull gas because of the vacuum created in the tank with the engine running.   If the engine stalls and you get a 'whoosh' of air when you open the gas cap the vent may be the culprit.

[Dartgame]

I had a sort of similar issue - shortly after I got the 52 running it just quit one day, and was terrible to start vs easy - it was the condenser - cheap Far East junk parts, (I had installed a new coil, condenser and points), and these are about all you can find these days in the part store. I opted to buy US made NOS replacement stuff at a swap meet. No problems since.

If fuel is the issue, then Jersey Harold is right, it might also be a clogged fuel pickup in the tank, in line filter element or worn out fuel line hoses as suggested above.