V8 Power Or Keep The Peace With L Head6

[55 Fargo]

I never thought I would be posting this suggestion.

I have the chance to buy a decent 318 and 727 trans.

Somebody I know also has this combo in his otherwise stock 1949 Fargo, and it drives well, better than mine, and more power and take off etc.

I would be looking to do the same, but would make sure all my suspension is taken care of, and would install disc up front, I have modern self energizing drum brakes on the rear already.

I have been pondering different ways to perk up my tired 251 engine, and probably could and still might, if the 318 idea goes out of my head.

I have access to a shop and folks with no-how on the install and fabbing for the swap... PS Friends 49 Fargo does not have it's firewall or floor cut for this swap, the 318 does sit low though....

Edited April 11, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[NiftyFifty]

I'd be interested too see how a 318 and 727 could go in without a firewall cut? But I guess if you cut the front frame support you could drop it all down, but what does that do to the drive line angle. Your still going to lose your pedal mounts, so that's a consideration

[ruff1148kr]

got any pics of 318-727 without firewall cut ? I'm interested too  already did mine with a cut and its tight, would love to see what I missed  I guess I missed something

[Dave72dt]

I think you can get it to clear with moving the radiator forward and using an electric fan in front of it.  That would gain you about 5 to 6 inches.

[NiftyFifty]

That would require a new rad mount and someway to keep the top mount for the grill shell...but I guess could be done...but the your weight in farther forward then it really should be

[55 Fargo]

I'd be interested too see how a 318 and 727 could go in without a firewall cut? But I guess if you cut the front frame support you could drop it all down, but what does that do to the drive line angle. Your still going to lose your pedal mounts, so that's a consideration

Hi, been a while since I saw it, so waiting on some pics, but He reiterated he did not cut the firewall, that it was a straightforward install, and he had to use an electric fan for the rad.

I did buy a 318 this morning, from a distant relative a Mopar Man, go the engine, flywheel torque converter, flex plate, motor mounts,drive shaft and bunch more needed items.

I still need to find a trans, but will find everything I need before swapping, this may be a year or so down the road.....

[55 Fargo]

The rad and mount, are forward in Canadian trucks to begin with, Harry's 49 Fargo, the 318 is mounted in low, and he did not cut the firewall, so waiting anxiously for some pics. Will post all relevant info as I get it.

The 55 frames are different than the earlier trucks, as they did accommodate a V8 in the 1955/56 truck line up, not sure if that makes a difference...

[55 Fargo]

Found these pics on the hamb, Mopar LA 318 engine and 727 trans in a 1955 Dodge truck, don't see anything cut out of the firewall on this job.

[NiftyFifty]

55 May have more room, that I can't say....had almost zero to do with them...but it looks like it all went in, but quite a bit forward and low....the one in the pic needs a bath pretty badly, and all that work and no 4 barrel!

[55 Fargo]

55 May have more room, that I can't say....had almost zero to do with them...but it looks like it all went in, but quite a bit forward and low....the one in the pic needs a bath pretty badly, and all that work and no 4 barrel!

I believe those pics were taken when the Guy just bought the truck, so not sure what he did later.

The 55 and on, have a good slope inwards on the firewall, and they were designed for V8s.

Now Harry from Winnipeg, his Fargo is a 49, and he did not cut the firewall to mount in his 318.

The 318 I bought is nice and clean at least, and not a quick clean and paint, just in good shape, and needs new paint...

[NiftyFifty]

I'd ditch that long snout water pump...never seen one that long before? I'm thinking length wise, a 318 at 29 1/2" from back to pulley should be somewhat close to a canadian flathead, but the width can also cause all sorts of issues with the steering and getting at the starter. Your also looking at moving your master cylinder, but that's easier now that the pedal has to be remounted anyway.

[wayfarer]

Yes, the 55 had a 241 v-8 option so putting in a 318 should be a no-brainer.

Dan Babb installed a 354Hemi in his PH and it looked like it was a factory install so to those who worry

about the firewall, I say look again.  http://p15-d24.com/topic/18782-dans-hemi-swap-project/?hl=babb

[55 Fargo]

Yes, the 55 had a 241 v-8 option so putting in a 318 should be a no-brainer.

Dan Babb installed a 354Hemi in his PH and it looked like it was a factory install so to those who worry

about the firewall, I say look again.  http://p15-d24.com/topic/18782-dans-hemi-swap-project/?hl=babb

Hi Wayfarer, have since found some pics of a 55 Dodge with a 318 installed, not very complicated at all. As you mentioned this truck and frame is set-up for a V8, does require any firewall cutting, or off center engine install, I don't think.

Is this why the Master Cyl, is installed under the cab, facing backwards from the factory, to avoid any interference witha V8 application?

I am not saying there won't be glitches, headaches or issues to resolve, but do not see it being a big nightmare either....

[wayfarer]

Not exactly sure about the master cylinder but my best guess is that it was just a design hold-over.

I'd be looking at some swing pedals and a firewall mounted master, but that is just me.

[RobertKB]

You are making me sad, Fred. What happened to your plans for a hopped up flathead?

[Moparty]

Maybe, I am new but if you want something truly different, beef up that Flathead 6. Hit with turbo and a little bit of boost, plenty of power and torque up hill all day.

Ok, yes 318 with 727 will fit (they put in a 360 last and blew it up), because my 51' had 3 318's in it before I got it, which had a A904 tranny behind it. Now, the 904 is stout from factory, can take up to 500 hp, depending on what year your 318 is and how stepped up it is.

904 vs. 727 the 904 on smaller applications such as racing will use 30 less hp off the line.

Engine mounts were hockey pucks, with nut on screw through engine mounts, in my 51' my firewall was slightly cut but that was bellhousing clearing from factory flathead crossmember. Was looking ugly but worked.

However, I am not a purist, so the 53' is getting a 5.9 Magnum with 46re (162k)... lol...

For simplistic approach I am considering rebuilding the flathead 6 with turbo... my worry is the crank being weak link unless you guys know where to find a forged crank I am in!

[Moparty]

Oh, and brakes on the 51' the owner before me had disc conversion.. lol check this out stock height doesn't bother you?

Front brake calipers & pads are '99 WJ (Jeep Grand Cherokee), Rotors are AS body front (Caravan, '96-'00) Yup, and the old tea cup master cylinder...

Clever for disc brakes on stock front end, I am sure I could have went with a dual res and power booster there was room, not sure if I have pics of this available.

[Don Coatney]

 

my worry is the crank being weak link unless you guys know where to find a forged crank I am in!

 

I have heard this rumor about weak crankshafts. Were it true the sides of the road would be lined with old Mopar's with broken crankshafts. From my 60 plus years of observing these Mopar flathead engines I have never seen a broken crankshaft. I have observed crankshaft bearing failure but never a broken crankshaft. Where did you hear that rumor?

[wayfarer]

Forged crank?

Unless I am grossly mistaken, every Mopar on the road had a forged crank until 1972.............

[55 Fargo]

Hey all, have not made any progress to date. Not sure, but will purchase all possible items for the swap before the swap.

I still have not made a solid commitment to this swap either.

However, driving the wheels off the truck whenever possible, she drives pretty darn good, and the engine runs pretty good too.

Here is what I have been noticing, engine starts well, accelerates well, and has good oil pressure and runs at a good temperature.

Inspite of all this, she will not idle smooth, bit of a miss, and a bit of a shake. I have tried everything, carb setting new plugs and wires point and cap look fine.

So most likely a valve issue going on here, I do have 2 cyls that are 85 and 90 psi, the rest 100.

Not a big deal, most likely a worn engine, at least in the valve department.

Here is something else that I have noticed, after a good run, and I stop engine for a short time, the engine of course gets a bit hotter from sitting and some heat soak, then when I start the engine, I have  a really noisy lifter, then it quiets down some , once temp gauge drops again to normal operating temp.

This engine has some lifter tick all the time, but it gets nosier when engine sits hot and is restarted again.

Is this from expansion, lack of oil on the lifter, or valve sticking in guides while hotter?

Just an observation, if all I need is a valve job, I might keep this engine in the truck, do a valve job and shave the head....

[Plymouthy Adams]

don't wait too long...don't want to hear it is still running a flathead with a miss when they shave your chest and install a valve in your heart..we not getting younger..

[55 Fargo]

don't wait too long...don't want to hear it is still running a flathead with a miss when they shave your chest and install a valve in your heart..we not getting younger..

Never rule it out I say, I just want to see your project on the road before then.......LOL

I know you enjoy the build, more than the ride, and that's cool, wish i were more patient and thorough as you are.....

[Plymouthy Adams]

patience helps...but also I have had a million things to do other than cars..home yard aging family member that require traveling in two directions..I will get back on the projects when the dust settles..

 

that is another good facet of the hobby..while you may not be able to get out in the shop due to out of town or other duties....you cans still keep abreast of the hobby via the forum and shop on the internet for parts...I find that I pretty much run an orphanage and got plenty to buy for...

Edited May 11, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[55 Fargo]

Okay so I pulled side covers off tonight to have a looksy, hmmmm is all I can say, a little sludge, but this are is dirty dirty IMO, can hardly wait to pull the oil pan. I think I am dealing with a high mile engine, that did not receive regular oil changes. The good news is it does not look like a rebuild block, and no rebuilder tags.

So I rebuild this engine or go with the 318, either way won't be cheap. 

This engine does start and run well enough, but does not idle nice, most likely ion the advance stages of wear. I can only imagine how much more pep it would have just with a rebuild, shave head and split exhaust. I would expect a noticeable driving difference....

[48Dodger]

I say build the Flat 6 ......get it tuned for maximum output.

 

Get 3:55 gears for the rear axle.

 

Enjoy the truck.

 

Build the 318 with Magnum heads, 273 adjustable rockers, solid lifters, KB 167 Slugs, a 750 Holley vac secondaries and the 904 with a shift kit. 

 

Building an engine is fun and should be treated like a second project to the truck itself. You can thow different engines it but you really don't change out different year cabs.

There are a lot of builds out there for the 318. Even if you don't use it, you can still sell it or save it for later. 

 

48D