26dodge Posted April 6, 2015 Report Posted April 6, 2015 Hi all,This is my first post here. A year or so ago i picked up this car as an empty shell, no engine, trans and not much interior. Body and chassis are solid. I put in a 12v 14 circuit harness and 64 9" t bird rear end, and now i have the opportunity to pick up a 440/727 with 77k miles on it for 300 bucks. Runs and drives great but, its trashed inside. I am aware of the work it will be, (not my first engine swap, second) the questions i have are, will the cavalier r&p stand up to the weight? Will the coil springs hold up? I will try to use as much from the motorhome as possible. Aside from the rear end i want it to be all mopar, frame or subframe swap is out. Any advice or experience would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted April 6, 2015 Report Posted April 6, 2015 do the cavalier TRW rack, relocate the shocks...your choice to do drop spindles..you will loose a tad of your turning radius with the rack unless you address the steering arms. The 440 will sit in...most do about a 4 inch firewall massage and still forward mount the radiator..you will have to remove the rear stock tranny mount and fab in a new one....these are readily available in generic format from most rod shops. The inner front fender will need a bit of reshaping for your larger engine width in front. Going with disc brakes will be a great improvement, dual master is advised, Watch your steering column to brake pedal clearance inside when setting up the TRW ..many overlook this till it is a bit late in the game. Your rear gear you said is already installed, setting your engine to match it for phasing is also a prime consideration now. Quote
mrwrstory Posted April 6, 2015 Report Posted April 6, 2015 Plymouthy Provides,.............. His note pretty much covers it all and he has extensive experience (and opinion). You may get a lot more and varied response but the above is a pretty succinct expression of the job. You could use that as your guide and "jump in". Quote
26dodge Posted April 6, 2015 Author Report Posted April 6, 2015 Thanks, some of that is already done, brake pedal is made and should clear everything inside, tranny cross member is gone, shocks are being relocated to frame, and the whole front end is off so i can remove what i need to from the inner fenders. As long as the cavalier rack and coils will stand up to the weight, ill do it. Thanks again for the input. Quote
wayfarer Posted April 6, 2015 Report Posted April 6, 2015 Great swap and it has been done many times before so look around if you need details. Troll through this photo album for some details and you can also connect with the owner. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/media/albums/47-dodge.7704/ . Quote
fstfish66 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 the car looks like it is sitting way HIGH,,, not sure whats going on up front but im guessing the rear leafs have be re arched??? i recently replaced the original coils springs up front,,i have a first gen red ram hemi,and the coils were coil bound,,but the previous owner had cut the coils,,,kool project,,body looks soild Quote
Young Ed Posted April 9, 2015 Report Posted April 9, 2015 Up front I think is the lack of an engine Quote
26dodge Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) Yep, no engine, tranny or interior. Ive got front buckets in it tho. I almost put a chevy 350 in it, but i changed my mind. And no, the rear springs are stock with new bushings and shackles, stock length, and air shocks. Edited April 10, 2015 by 26dodge Quote
fstfish66 Posted April 10, 2015 Report Posted April 10, 2015 aah air shocks,,, i remember those days,,,, Quote
wayfarer Posted April 10, 2015 Report Posted April 10, 2015 Yep, no engine, tranny or interior. Ive got front buckets in it tho. I almost put a chevy 350 in it, but i changed my mind. And no, the rear springs are stock with new bushings and shackles, stock length, and air shocks. I don't know anything about your history, but I congratulate you for by-passing the gm stuff. If you have never driven an RB powered 'something' you will never regret having the torque waiting under the go pedal. A sbc can only dream about such luxury.... 1 Quote
RUSTYSNACK Posted April 16, 2015 Report Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) I'm glad i stumbled on this thread.I too purchased a 1950 Plymouth club coupe about a year ago but mine came with a 472 Cadillac big block and a turbo 400 already bolted into the car i was told it ran and drove at one point but the firewall/floor pans were cut out and then were so cobbled/patched/screwed together ive had to go and cut it all out and start over as far as the sheet metal goes but ill tell ya the fire wall will have to get massaged in at least 4 inches an the inner fenders were trimmed to fit..this guy used some 3/4 stock welded right to the top of the frame to mount the engine in which is the only thing that looks properly done about mine..it does look sweet but i have ALOT of sheet metal work to do to make The whole car look good,also a previous owner tried to chop the roof and hacked it up real bad.i have no idea how many hands have been on this thing over its life and i have alottta work ahead of me,This is my first custom rod but I'm skilled and determined to bring this vision back from the grave.i have a ton of questions about what i think i wanna do versus what will work on this car.i once asked about ditching the 472 for a 440 to go all MOPAR on another thread and some guys talked me into keeping the caddy for its unique cool factor, but i too know where a 440 motor home with 43,000 on it sits but i am a Chevy guy with a healthy respect for MOPAR but i'm not gonna lose sleep over keeping the caddy. Edited April 16, 2015 by RUSTYSNACK Quote
wayfarer Posted April 16, 2015 Report Posted April 16, 2015 Nothing wrong with the 472/500 Cads, in fact I have a couple in the shop waiting for their turn. But, they are not compact units. IMHO, the best place for a 472/500 is in a shiverlay....Considering the amount of torque, I am constantly amazed that folks waste money building a sbc for a pickup when one of these torque monsters will bolt in. Go figure. Quote
casper50 Posted April 16, 2015 Report Posted April 16, 2015 This one says it has a clip off of a 77 Plymouth wagon along with the 318 and auto tranny. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Other-Coupe-/221746499977?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33a11f1189&item=221746499977 Quote
Andydodge Posted April 16, 2015 Report Posted April 16, 2015 Welcome to the best mopar forum around, you mention the inner fender clearance.....you should be o/k to use the inner fenders unless you decide to run headers thru that area, I have a 318 poly in my 40 Dodge and whilst I use the stock exhaust manifolds the engine has plenty of clearance from the inner fenders which would be similar to your cars........the Polys are a wide engine so you should be o/k.........regards, andyd Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted April 16, 2015 Report Posted April 16, 2015 about inner fender mods...I have yet to install any V engine in the 40-early 50's Dodge/Plymouth without serious modification be it a 3.7, 3.9 the LA series or the B/RB engines..I do not ever install headers.. Quote
RUSTYSNACK Posted April 17, 2015 Report Posted April 17, 2015 well heres what the 472 looks like in my 1950 plymouth. i bought it this way and its the only nicely done thing on the car. i cant really tell if the inner fenders were trimmed or not since i dont know what original looks like and they used some rubber to make a splash shield, but the fire wall was definitely cut out to fit and they cobbled a crap fire wall in i have since cut out and will redo. Quote
DJ194950 Posted April 17, 2015 Report Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) I might could tell of any inner fender wells(splash panels)were modified if the pic was clearer and showed them one at a time from above them, would be best. Own two 50 plymouths and the original front sheet metal is Almost identical 49/50 Ply. One with v-8 has both sides narrowed some what and the other is almost totally original, the fender wells are stock on the one with the flat 6. Edited April 17, 2015 by DJ194950 Quote
RUSTYSNACK Posted April 20, 2015 Report Posted April 20, 2015 Well i took a closer look myself at the inner fenders as i never really paid any close attention to them before now,and they have been trimmed slightly but i dont think it was done to make the engine fit as much as they were lazy and wanted easier access to the side of the block for spark plug/manifold work. i did take some better pictures of the fenders and engine mounts i will upload later. Quote
blucarsdn Posted April 20, 2015 Report Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) If I read the original content of this topic correctly, you implied that the 440 engine you were considering for your repowering was an RV engine.. I would stonly suggest that you reconcider this plan.. The RV engines are not very good in a car application.. The RV engines are designed for low RPM pulling power, therefore they have low HP, small valves in completely different heads. The same is true of the automatic transmissions that are used in RV's. A friend of mine thought he had really picked up a good deal, an RV that had been in a fire, had less than 40k on it and the fire had not gotten near the engine/trans. The engine drank fuel like it was free and the general speed left much to be desired. My friend ended up spending a bunch of monwy on the engine replacing the heads and cam, trying to make the thing perform the way he thought it should. A better plan would be to pick up a late model Dodge 318 Magnum. I bought a '98 Dodge Ram w/318 Magnum that had been wrecked for $400, the engine had less than 60K on it. It was fuel injected, I am going to use a carb on it in lieu of the fuel injection. There are people in the Mopar community that will tell you that the 318 engine is not much of an engine, however, if you do some reseach you will find that the Chrysler 318 is Chryslers version of the Chevy small block. The Magnum 318's have some really neat features.. I can assure you that had I known fifteen years ago, what I know now about the Mopar 318/360 engines I would not have used a SBC in my '39 Plym conv. At the time I was making plans for a power plant for my Plym, the only engine options I could get out of the Mopar guys was "Hemi" or "440".. Edited April 20, 2015 by blucarsdn Quote
wayfarer Posted April 20, 2015 Report Posted April 20, 2015 There are two varieties of truck/MH 440 engines. If it looks like a pass car 440 then there should not be any HP penalty nor would it have a lower c/r than the same year pass car. Your experience with "completely different" heads is indicative of the truck head/engine and not the same for the vast majority of MH engines that we find on Craigslist. But, since the OP is keeping the Cad all of this is moot...... Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted April 20, 2015 Report Posted April 20, 2015 sounds like the apron were left off the one side and trimmed on the other....water splash could or could not become a problem for you... Quote
Frank Elder Posted April 20, 2015 Report Posted April 20, 2015 There are two varieties of truck/MH 440 engines. If it looks like a pass car 440 then there should not be any HP penalty nor would it have a lower c/r than the same year pass car. Your experience with "completely different" heads is indicative of the truck head/engine and not the same for the vast majority of MH engines that we find on Craigslist. But, since the OP is keeping the Cad all of this is moot...... Rustysnack is not the OP......just a hijacker. Quote
wayfarer Posted April 21, 2015 Report Posted April 21, 2015 Rustysnack is not the OP......just a hijacker. ...hence my last comment. The rest was just info that I hope might be of some value to other readers. Love your sig line Frank...very creative. 1 Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted April 21, 2015 Report Posted April 21, 2015 ... Love your sig line Frank...very creative. Frank is just a chip off the old block Quote
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