What does it mean that a car is titled for "antique"

[Thomba48]

Hi, I am currently checking on a car for purchase. The current owner has just right now  titled his car for "antique".

 

Of course I can imagine what that generally speaking means. What I was wondering - and I couldn't find any information on that sofar - is this only an historic "thing" probably impacting tax or insurance matters or is it also an indication of "quality". A bit like a MOT in Europe.

 

thanks for your thoughts on that.

 

 

 

thom

[BobT-47P15]

I don't know how they do it in other places, but here in Missouri they simply issue a title based on year and make of car......says nothing about being an

antique.   Then ---- if the car is 25 years old or older, they will sell you an "antique" or "historic vehicle" license plate.   The "antique" tags, as far as I know, 

require no state safety inspection ever and are good for as long as you own the particular car.  If you sell the car, you are supposed to turn the tag back in,

then buy another for your next old car.  When I bought my tags in 1973 the cost was $15.  I think it may be $25 or so now. 

 

I know that's not the exact answer you are looking for......but it's how such things are done in one state.

[Thomba48]

That by the way is the exact answer I was looking for :-)

 

One question back: So why would you actually spend those 25 dollars for thte "tag"? What is the actual benefit for being "antique"?

 

:-)

[casper50]

no state inspection for one.  The other is some cars didn't come with seatbelts, turn signals and other safety equipment that are required today.  Keeps the tickets away.

[Thomba48]

Okay. Call, I do understand now. Thanks :-) :-) :-)

[Merle Coggins]

Here in WI you can apply for "Collector" plated for any vehicle over 20 years old as long as there are no alterations to the body. The registration never expires, so there is no annual renewal. However the registration is not valid in January, so no driving then. (like anyone would take out a classic vehicle in January in Wisconsin)

 

We can also get "Antique" plates for a vehicle model year 1945 or earlier. The vehicle can only be driven for special occasions such as display and parade purposes or for necessary testing, maintenance and storage purposes. And again, the registration never expires.

[Thomba48]

Like anywhere in the world: Laws are very often not to be understood (why Jan and not Feb? :-)) but adhered to :-)

 

Thanks for this interesting cultural ride through the US legislation. :-)

 

 

 

thom

[desoto1939]

The other point that no one has mentioned is that you now can get cheaper insurance for the car. Also better to use an insurance company that specializes in antique car coverage instead of your regular car insuracne company.  When you insure with a special antique car insureance company such as Taylor, Grundy, Haggerty, would state a specific value that you want to insure the car for. This is the value that the insurance company and you both agree on and if the car is totaleld then you get the price that you insured the car for, but there is one note here in some states there is a cap on coverage so to if there is damage and the dmage exceeds a cetain percentage then the car is total and you only get a percentage of the amount.  So read your policies carefully. This happened to one of the forum members a couple of years back.

 

In PA the advantage is no inspections, cheaper car insurance and you own the tag for life even if you sellthe car, you can keep the tag and then regreister it on the next car or sell it to the new ownere of the car you just sold.

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[50fordtruck]

In New York we still have to inspect and register every year. We can use a plate from the year the car was built if it's approved by the DMV. I had a 50 Ford truck that had only one wiper and the inspector of the vehicle was concerned about it until I explained that it was originally built that way. There was a factory plug on the other side and a second wiper assembly could be purchased as an accessory in 1950. My 47 Plymouth still has no seat belts, for safety I may put them in.

[Don Coatney]

desoto1939, on 08 Jan 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

The other point that no one has mentioned is that you now can get cheaper insurance for the car. Also better to use an insurance company that specializes in antique car coverage instead of your regular car insuracne company.  When you insure with a special antique car insureance company such as Taylor, Grundy, Haggerty, would state a specific value that you want to insure the car for. This is the value that the insurance company and you both agree on and if the car is totaleld then you get the price that you insured the car for, but there is one note here in some states there is a cap on coverage so to if there is damage and the dmage exceeds a cetain percentage then the car is total and you only get a percentage of the amount.  So read your policies carefully. This happened to one of the forum members a couple of years back.

 

In PA the advantage is no inspections, cheaper car insurance and you own the tag for life even if you sellthe car, you can keep the tag and then regreister it on the next car or sell it to the new ownere of the car you just sold.

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com

Having an antique tag on a car is not a requirement to purchase antique car insurance. I don't recall any questions on the antique car application asking how the car is registered. I use year of manufacture tags here in Indiana and I used them in Tennessee. In order to do so I must register the vehicle as you would a modern car and carry that tag in the trunk but display the YOM tag. The state then gives me a letter stating I have double registered the vehicle and I must show that letter to any officer of the law upon demand. I carry antique auto insurance on this vehicle with no antique auto tag.

[greg g]

Most if not all states have their DMV rules, policies, and procedures on line along with the printable forms necessary to register and title cars and other vehicles.  I would think that no state would require you to register a vehicle as historic, antique, or collector unless you as the owner chose to abide by the tenants of that type of registration.  AS indicated above every state seems a bit different in how they treat these classifications.  Historic in NY does restrict total annual mileage, and companies offering insurance also follow that restriction.  I believe the language says the vehicles are for occasional pleasure usage, as in parades, club tours, travelling to and from shows and exhibits etc.  The legal definition of "occasional" might take up a few hours of court time if it ever came to that. I would argue that using it daily for 3 months out of 12 is occasional, some would argue against that point.  The biggest benefit in NY is inexpensive insurance provided by the restricted use exposure to damage of an occasional use vehicle.  Vehicle registration fees are determined by weight here in NY for daily use vehicles.  HISTORIC PLATES are a flat annual fee,  cars are still subjected to an annual safety inspection (with equipment appropriate to the year of manufacture) that looks at tires, brakes, lights, front end component wear, and frame integrity. New York does not have titles on cars prior to 1972, ownership proof is provided by the transferable registration documents.

[greg g]

Hey Don, NY does require that the vehicle insurance documents that are carried in the car have the word HISTORIC printed conspicuously on the face of the document.  The licence plate's numbering/lettering must also be show on the document, whether NY issued Historic or Year of manufacture.

[Thomba48]

Now having started this thread I shall enlighten you towards the situation here in Germany.

 

Any car, might it be new or old, has to run through a thorough inspection every two years (after three years for the first time for a completely new car). Obviously "old" cars will under no circumstances be able to comply to the most modern requirements. So here it often becomes a bit of a grey zone. What one inspector accepts another one might not.

 

Vintage cars - that translation probably comes closer to the German phrase of Oldtimer (also english :-)) - are defined as 30plus and older. These cars can be granted the antique status (we call it historisch (historic), therefore being granted the H named registration plate) most people would certainly aim for. Tax is considerably cheaper. Insurances (just like you stated) are very complete and cheap (as those companies do assume a low mileage usage pattern).

 

But also, with an H-rated car one is allowed to enter any cities without restrictions. What that means: For pollution reasons quite a few cities have introduced a so called "Environment zone" only allowing those cars to enter that area that adhere to a certain fine particles limit (I hope this translates well enough into english). Resulting in many cars from the beginning of the 90s to not being able to enter the city centers. So this e.g. is the case in Munich, where I reside. The funny thing is: I was able to drive through Munich in my P15 Business Coupe (when I still had it), certainly not renowned for a low gas useage and hence environment friendliness, where as friends of mine owning an Audi from 1990 had to stop outside the city and take the underground to meet up with me.

 

Historic also requires to stick as close to the original state of the car as possible (therefore safety belts are only required if cars of that time and period originally were equipped with safety belts). Which obviously is very difficult for many inspectors to check or comprehend. Obviously a "tuned up car, maybe even chopped" is kind of original. That is the way that car might have looked like for the past I don't know 40 years or at least that is the way cars might have looked like back than. So, there is a lot of room to "be flexible" in execution terms. But basic safety aspects need to be adhered to. Henceforth, most hot rods I see in the US would never be able to drive on German roads. :-(

 

Looking across the boarder to e.g. Switzerland the situation looks a bit similar but also different. Main difference, so I believe: The speedometer has to display KM and not mileage and the H registration plate is not "per individual car" but "per car you happen to drive right now". So one plate can therefore be used for your entire car collection (should one happen to have one and quite a few Swiss guys actually do), but obviously the plate can only be used for one car at the time.

 

I suppose that all sums it up: We are all the same but different :-)

Edited January 8, 2015 by Thomba48

[greg g]

I like the Swiss part about one registration for multiple vehicles.  That would not work in New York state as it makes to much sense...... Interesting about the environmental restrictions.  I believe London has some thing similar where you pay a higher tax or registration fee if you live/drive  within defined areas with the highest being city center.   Seems the police would have better things to worry about than if the Audi at the curb city center was a 1995 or a 2005.  What happens when some one from the suburbs of Hamburg wants to visit a friend in the center of Munich?  How are these environmental zones identified?  Is there a sign that says all cars older than 1992 must exit now?? 

[Thomba48]

Hi Greg,

 

London seems to work slightly different: Here everyone can enter, but also everyone has to pay. Being a center resident you obviously can acquire a discounted annual badge.

 

I do like you Hamburg example. It is a very obvious issue, although not as likely to happen. The Hamburg/ Munich distance results in a 6/7 hrs drive and therefore for us Germans feeling almost like flying to NY. So most people probably would either fly or take a well equipped and comfortable train.

 

But coming back to your train of thought. You actually have to know that upfront. Which one doesn't always do. Than entering the city, the zones are indicated thanks to road sings (http://www.umweltbundesamt.de/themen/luft/luftschadstoffe/feinstaub/umweltzonen-in-deutschland). But those you might occassionaly overlook. And your car has to have a badge (cost in the region of 15 € so I believe to remember http://www.gutschild.de/feinstaubplakette-euro4-gruen.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiA8rilBRDZu_G8hszXraoBEiQABlB9Ywc0wfWlVzohD2mC0lPD1lIRclysE7zNVHBDql4GZZEaAte78P8HAQ).

 

And also acquiring the badge is not car age linked but fine particles related (and therefore linked to the engine output as stated by the manufacturer and not linked to the actual engine reality. So your car is not being checked, but simply by entering a few information into a system the inspector can immediately tell you if you can get a badge or not. And that badge the car then keep forever.). So the 1990 Audi was just an example. For another Audi model and engine it might be an issue if you happen to have, I don't know, a 1989 model etc. But generally cars build around that period are beginning to have problems already to reach the limits defined by law.

 

Obviously if you are being caught, which to be honest is not being done a lot because of course the police has in the most cases better things to do than check out car badges, you are being fined plus being added a few points to your "negative driving point list" (if you have reached a certain number of points you have to hand back your driving license for a bespoke number of weeks, months maybe even years).

 

So all in all - stupid, useless and overlegislated.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Thomba48

[Don Coatney]

greg g, on 08 Jan 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

Hey Don, NY does require that the vehicle insurance documents that are carried in the car have the word HISTORIC printed conspicuously on the face of the document.  The licence plate's numbering/lettering must also be show on the document, whether NY issued Historic or Year of manufacture.

My point was that antique tags are not required to purchase antique (or historic) auto insurance and I believe I am correct in that statement.

[desoto1939]

Having an antique tag on a car is not a requirement to purchase antique car insurance. I don't recall any questions on the antique car application asking how the car is registered. I use year of manufacture tags here in Indiana and I used them in Tennessee. In order to do so I must register the vehicle as you would a modern car and carry that tag in the trunk but display the YOM tag. The state then gives me a letter stating I have double registered the vehicle and I must show that letter to any officer of the law upon demand. I carry antique auto insurance on this vehicle with no antique auto tag.

Hey Don:

 

I just checked the onoline JC Taylor application for the State of PA and onthe application they want to know the following:

car year, model, serial number and if the vehicle is registered in the state of Pa.

 

I have also seen on some Insurance carries that you can insure a car that i sbeing restore but is not road worthy so I guess you can insure a car without being registered.  In the state of PA you can also register an antique car with a Year of Manufacture plate but have to pay an additional fee for this so it really is not worth the extra money to me in the state of Pa since I already paid for the Antique tag.  I have a correct year of manufacturer plate on the front of the car just for display puposes.

 

Rich HArtung

[austinsailor]

I am another Missouri antique tag holder - 8 or 9, I'd have to take a walk around to be sure.

Someone asked why you would.

1 no inspection - ever.

2. $25 for 1 license - good forever.

3. 1000 miles of personal use per year. You keep your own records.

At least in Missouri, no connection to whether it has antique insurance or antique tags. I have an 87 International dump truck I use to go to the quarry, mostly. Antique tags for the above reasons, commercial policy because nobody will sell antique insurance for it.

I have had antique insurance on a vehicle with regular tags - until I realized nobody cares how many miles you go with antique tags.

As to safety equipment, every place I've checked safety/emissions requirements were based on year of manufacture not registration type. Just for the record, and it was not easy to find in the statutes, took me and 2 cops. Half an hour to sort it out - seat belts are required if seat belt mounts were installed by the factory, regardless of whether the belts were originally installed by the factory as sold.

[Frank Elder]

Just think of us like Europe...only that we have 50 nations instead of states, and everyone with its own sets of rules to enforce...rarely, if at all, will any state have the same laws as its neighbor. Basically if someone gets an antique plate they are doing it for monetary savings, vanity, [look at me, look at me] or insurance purposes........disadvantages can be parades only, limited miles per year [some states require a logbook] and your numbers better match, or only being able to go to car shows/club meetings. I have YOM plates....But they are hanging on the garage wall, plain plates are the easiest for me.

 

Also, your insurance may not cover you to and from work as a daily driver......

[_shel_ny]

Meanwhile back at the ranch..........."titled"  ?????  In states that have "titles" for older vehicles, a title (proof of ownership), and a registration (paying for plates and road use) be it regular, commercial, historic, antique........... are 2 completely different things.

 

As has been stated, some states have no title. In those cases your registration becomes your proof of ownership. (A "bill of sale" proving ownership would likely have been surrendered when registered)  If you take that vehicle out of service (surrender the plates if you do not own them. depends on type of registration) you keep the registration form as proof of ownership to again apply for plates, or to sell the vehicle.

 

So,  .............. """"""""" The current owner has just right now  titled his car for "antique"."""""""""  is a subject that needs to be clarified more with information as to where that individual vehicle is titled "antique".  Do some states have "titles" that say "antique" on them????

[Thomba48]

By the way the car is currentyl situated in DA. But I am honestly getting the picture now :-) I simply wanted to assess what that term referred to and what actual benefits were involved. I shall day more knowledgeable now one day (certainly not too sone :-)). Thom

[Niel Hoback]

  Don, you are right about Indiana's antique plate requirements.  I have antique car insurance through State Farm and license plates were never discussed.  I have regular passenger car plates on all the cars, they are sequential. Antique plates in Indiana have too many restrictions on use so I won't buy them.

  The agent I dealt with had to send pictures to the insurance company and there were several showing the back of the car with the license plate AND TRAILER HITCH!  No questions were asked and the policy was issued within a week. It's Indiana, go figure.

[rtlsnakedaddy]

Very Nice!  You live in a beautiful area of the world.  I was there last fall for Oktoberfest, although I must confess that I do not do well with crowds and was happy to get out to the country after a few days.  

 

In New Hampshire, they do not title vehicles over 15 years, so older than that you get an annual registration.  I was able to get an 'antique title' for my old Norton and BMW motorcycles when I moved up here, but am not sure if they still offer them.  As an antique though, you can skip one year between inspections.  NH does still require safety inspections on all vehicles, no emissions yet. I am still restoring my Chrysler, so haven't had time to really experience it. 

 

ein schöner Tag,

 

Erich

[BobT-47P15]

Yes, as Austinsailor mentioned, there are certain restrictions/requirements that go along with "historic" plates here in Missouri.

You are supposed to carry a small notebook in your glove compartment as a "Log Book:" for mileage driven.  Have a starting

mileage for the year then add number of miles driven to a show, etc.....thereby you would have an ending mileage in

December.  Have carried a notebook since 1973 and no official has ever asked to see it.  You also have to carry a "proof of

insurance" card at all times in case there is ever an accident.  I have added seat belts but there was no requirement to do so.

 

Regarding "antique" insurance........State Farm would only insure a very nice original or a restored car in good condition.

I worked in a S F office......we had to send in a photo of the engine bay, the interior, and two shots of the exterior - one from

each side.  If you provide a reasonable valuation of the car, S F will use that coverage amount.  If you are way too high in

your estimate they will probably either look up values in the Old Car Value Guide, or have you pay for a professional

appraisal with detailed explanations of your car's value.

 

S F would not insure as an antique just some old car that was in '"fairly good" condition......and likely low mileage for the

model year.   I made a few people with old, but not cleaned up cars, mad.  Of course, they were simply wanting cheap

insurance.....and the car was usually 25 years old or older.....but dirty engine bay, seats dirty, paint dull, etc.

 

One thing the county (at least our county of Jasper)....does is to collect taxes on your antique car.  Here, you fill out

a form listing "personal property".....including cars, trucks, boats, farm equipment and so on.  So......you get cheap

license plates and insurance, but you pay your annual tax on the car.      

[Thomba48]

Interesting insights. And as always - a real pleasure talking to you all :-)