casper50 Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Sorry I don't understand why you moved the crankshaft or the camshaft. It should have went straight on with maybe a little turning to make up for the slop in the old chain. Quote
Kai-by-Vecona Posted March 21, 2015 Author Report Posted March 21, 2015 No... I didn't turn them. I checked the slop as discrobed and then I disassembled the timing chain. I didn't turn anything because I don't want to have any trouble installing the new one. But when I did yesterday, the only way to install the new camshaft sprocket was in opposite of the dot. Now I don't know if the dot is on the wrong position of the sproket or if theres something completey wrong. When I turn the camshaft so the dots match like described in the manual, the rotor of my distributor point on cylinder 6. That's what makes no sense to me.... Quote
Jeff Balazs Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Remove the distributor. Line the marks up together and put the chain on. Then put the distributor back in. Remember it can only go in two ways........one way is 180 out of sequence and the other is correct. Hope this helps. Jeff Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 The cam dot will always be 180 degrees off when the engine is at TDC firing #1 cyl. Set the cam and crank gears up aligning the dots directly across from each other. Then rotate the engine to TDC compression for #1 cylinder (both Intake and exhaust valves closed). Drop the distributor back in with the rotor firing #1 cylinder. Done. Bob 2 Quote
Kai-by-Vecona Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Posted March 22, 2015 @ Jeff Yes, but when I installed it like ist was number 6 was fireing, so that's why I think the marking on the sprocket is on the opposite position @ Dodgeb4ya As I understand my manual, when both markings are next to each other cam, piston and distributor are in firing position. But my setup was in firing position when I disassembled it and when I installed the new one, the dot was on the opposite site so that's why I think the marking is 180° offset. I check if both valves are closed, then I set distributor on #1 if they are both open I set the distributor on #6. Thanks for the help Quote
casper50 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 Kai I doubt that the manufacturer marked it incorrectly. Quote
Jeff Balazs Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 It is highly unlikely that the sprocket is marked incorrectly. You need to put the marks together and trust that. In fact put together and don't give it another thought. If you have problems starting after this the worst it could be is the distributor could be out 180 and that is easy to fix. Jeff 1 Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 Forget your old distributor rotor position and which cylinder was firing.... IE #1 or 6. Assemble the chain and gears/ didtributor as if you are doing a new engine rebuild. 1 Quote
Kai-by-Vecona Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Posted March 22, 2015 So.... just to let you know. I checked the position of the valves and they are closed when the dot on the camshaft sprocket is on the opposit side. Seems, like the marks are wrong. Good to check twice :-) Quote
DonaldSmith Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 It's been a while since I reassembled my rebuilt engine. I did manage to get it together right. But I forget what keeps the large sprocket from going onto the camshaft wrong, maybe 60 degrees off one way or the other. Could it possibly be mounted wrong in this case? When the crankshaft rotates, are the valves opening and closing in the right phase, or are they off, one way or the other? Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 The cam gear will only bolt on one way by positioning it over the three bolt holes on the cam that line up. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 So.... just to let you know. I checked the position of the valves and they are closed when the dot on the camshaft sprocket is on the opposit side. Seems, like the marks are wrong. Good to check twice :-) So you are saying both the intake and exhaust valves are completely 100% closed with feeler guage clearance on #1 cyl.@ TDC with the cam dot180 degrees opposite the crank gear dot? Quote
mhawkins Posted March 23, 2015 Report Posted March 23, 2015 It may be that the #1 is on tdc compresion with the cam dot opposite the crank dot,this is the case on SBC engines. As this is a common misconception. It really doesn't matter,once the engine is together you can turn it until compression comes out the #1 hole,line up the timing marks and point rotor to #1 on distributor cap. See post 79. 1 Quote
Dave72dt Posted March 23, 2015 Report Posted March 23, 2015 They may be closed on 6 and 1, depending on how much overlap the cam has built into it. On the same rotaion up, compression on cyl 1 would have them both closed all the way up while on cyl 6 the exhaust valve would be closing until it reached the top and then the intake would begin to open At the very top they could look like all of them were closed. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 23, 2015 Report Posted March 23, 2015 ^^^^ Thats why I mentioned checking Valves closed using a feeler guage just to be sure.. Overlap could confuse some into thinking the valve are completely closed. A lot of talk about just setting up a couple gears and a chain . Quote
Kai-by-Vecona Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Posted March 23, 2015 Yes.. crazy. I tought this is easy but it's the way it is. I turned the engine several times and had a look at the valves. By turning the engine you could see which valve is moving. They are closed when the marking is on the opposite site 0_o And like Dodgeb4ya said, you can't bolt the sprocket in any other position because the holes are not on a symetrical triangel. Think it's like mhawkins said, that the timing chain setup is maybe for another kind of engine or something. Hope to get all the other stuff assembled this week and I let you know what happend. If I guess right the worst thing is, that I have to flip the rotor 180°. Quote
ptwothree Posted March 23, 2015 Report Posted March 23, 2015 Here's another way to tell if you have it right. Install the gears and chain which ever way makes you happy..Then, rotate the crankshaft clockwise and observe the valves. The intake valve, second one back from the front, should be the next one you see moving. It should be opening. If not....then try again. When I assembled my 218, the dots were lined up close together. It turned over 3 times and ran great. Good luck! Quote
Jeff Balazs Posted March 23, 2015 Report Posted March 23, 2015 I would urge you to put the chain on with the marks together. Then turn it over by hand until you can tell #1 is on TDC. I would bet the mark on the new sprocket is where it should be. Line them up together. There is no alternative position for this arrangement and you will save yourself tearing it apart again. Jeff Quote
Kai-by-Vecona Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Posted March 23, 2015 I did like ptwothree did with the difference that the dots line up but on opposite site like in the picture. If I would do it like Jeff told, I had to switch the distributor because both valves are open when the dots line up next to each other. We will see what happend when I start the engine :-) Quote
Don Coatney Posted March 23, 2015 Report Posted March 23, 2015 You can line the marks up by the book as this has worked forever or you can do it however you want and guess if it will work. The choice is yours. 1 Quote
Jeff Balazs Posted March 23, 2015 Report Posted March 23, 2015 You need to trust the manual and us. We are trying to keep you out of a big waste of time. It is only going to work one way. Quote
Kai-by-Vecona Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Posted March 23, 2015 That's not that I don't trust you or the manual, I just see what is. I also can't imagine, that the dot is on the wrong place, but the facts tell me something else...O_o Quote
Jeff Balazs Posted March 23, 2015 Report Posted March 23, 2015 Oh I am certain you are convinced by what you believe you see. I have gone down paths like this before. They generally lead nowhere. I predict you will be revisiting this shortly. As the one true fact is.....and again trust me..... it will only run one way. Jeff. Quote
TodFitch Posted March 23, 2015 Report Posted March 23, 2015 All those dots do is is set the relative motion/timing between the crank and the valves. If you set it by the book with the two dots together and then rotate the crank one turn you should end up where you photo is. And it is probably easier to verify you are on the right tooth with the dots together, so why not do it like the book? Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 23, 2015 Report Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Well seeing that the gear looks like some cheap chinese cam gear with a bunch of excess cooling holes in it....maybe the 2 year old child that punched the dot possibly punched it on the back side of the gear! The back (wrong) side. Edited March 23, 2015 by Dodgeb4ya Quote
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