P-15 Pertronix upgrade? Anyone use this on a stock motor?

[oldschool47]

Hello all!

 

I have a great running non smoking, not knocking, honest stock P-15 with a recently rebuilt ball and ball and extensive tuneup.  Other than a worn cam lobe for my fuel pump (running a key on electric in conjunction) the car is great.

 

In a different vehicle I have used Pertronix ignition with great results and throttle response.  Yes a 472 V8 Cadillac is a very different animal but could my P-15 stand to gain a bit more power if I replace the condensor and coil with a hotter than stock unit?  Could this cause trouble with a hotter spark in the long run on a 12V converted car?  Here are the specs and improvements over stock....

 

• Delivers twice the voltage to the spark plugs, increasing horsepower, fuel economy, and spark plug life
• 2:1 improvement over points in current fall time for increased coil output
• Rotating cobalt magnets trigger a Hall Effect integrated circuit . ...no points to burn, ...no moving parts to wear out
• Epoxy molding makes our module impervious to dirt, oil, grease and moisture
• Fits entirely inside the distributor
• No "black box to clutter the engine compartment
• Stable timing ...no need for any adjustments
• Will trigger most multi-spark CD ignitions
• Use with Flame-Thrower® 40,000 volt coil for optimal performance (INCLUDED)
• Available for 6 and 12-volt negative and positive ground systems

Thanks in advance for any advice regarding this ignition/spark system.

 

Matt

Edited November 12, 2014 by oldschool47

[Don Coatney]

oldschool47, on 12 Nov 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Hello all!

 

I have a great running non smoking, not knocking, honest stock P-15 with a recently rebuilt ball and ball and extensive tuneup.  Other than a worn cam lobe for my fuel pump (running a key on electric in conjunction) the car is great.

 

In a different vehicle I have used Pertronix ignition with great results and throttle response.  Yes a 472 V8 Cadillac is a very different animal but could my P-15 stand to gain a bit more power if I replace the condensor and coil with a hotter than stock unit?  Could this cause trouble with a hotter spark in the long run on a 12V converted car?  Here are the specs and improvements over stock....

 

• Delivers twice the voltage to the spark plugs, increasing horsepower, fuel economy, and spark plug life
• 2:1 improvement over points in current fall time for increased coil output
• Rotating cobalt magnets trigger a Hall Effect integrated circuit . ...no points to burn, ...no moving parts to wear out
• Epoxy molding makes our module impervious to dirt, oil, grease and moisture
• Fits entirely inside the distributor
• No "black box to clutter the engine compartment
• Stable timing ...no need for any adjustments
• Will trigger most multi-spark CD ignitions
• Use with Flame-Thrower® 40,000 volt coil for optimal performance (INCLUDED)
• Available for 6 and 12-volt negative and positive ground systems

Thanks in advance for any advice regarding this ignition/spark system.

 

Matt

I have doubts that you will see a noticeable increase in horsepower, fuel economy, and sparkplug life.

 

The biggest bang for the buck in horsepower improvement is increased compression ratio. You can add dual carbs and exhaust, a lumpier cam, and other bling but in the end you will still have a flathead 6 that will produce well under 200 horsepower.

 

There may be a slight increase in engine efficiency but in my opinion it will not increase fuel economy. Driving habits are the main thing that affects fuel economy.

 

And spark plug life is more dependent on unleaded fuel than on hall effect ignition.

 

I do question your comment "2:1 improvement over points in current fall time for increased coil output" Contact points have an expected life span of between 15,000 and 30,000 miles due to arching and point wear. As there are no wear parts in a hall effect ignition why will it be expected to fail ever? And what does increased coil output have to do with mean time between failure?

 

As you can tell I am not a huge fan of converting to electronic ignition systems but that is just my opinion. Others who have made the conversion also have there opinions and hopefully they will share there story.

[Young Ed]

I want to know where you are getting points that will last 15k-30k miles? I just had to swap out the set in my truck at 5k miles. The ones in my car lasted about 12.

[Mark D]

Good to see you posting on the forum Matt.  A petronix swap is something I have considered doing, but since my dizzy is not acting up, I've decided to leave well enough alone until needed.

 

Mark

[1941Rick]

Unless you go to a monster coil you will not gain voltage.....Pertronics is an electronic replacement for points.

You will hear pros and cons, my con is if you are away from home and have problems with Pertronics you may be down waiting for parts.

I converted to Mopar electronic out of a slant 6. Very happy with the way the car runs. No hesitation at any speed, quick starts, and reliable.

Just have to carry a ballast resistor with me.

[Don Coatney]

Young Ed, on 12 Nov 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

I want to know where you are getting points that will last 15k-30k miles? I just had to swap out the set in my truck at 5k miles. The ones in my car lasted about 12.

Dual points and I gap them around .018" for less arcing.

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

remember..with dual point one set is closing the circuit..the other is opening thus a single cycle (spark) is only partially felt on each contact  set..thus longer life...better spark through deeper saturation...IF the original person asking this questions wants, he can change out his coil for a higher secondary output...as  note to anyone going Pertronix...get their matched set for long life..some known mismatching has been found to cause short life of the Pertronix unit...this is not an over the counter device for the most part...difference on driving home and riding on the back of a roll back could be the very difference in user experience...with increase in output secondary your plug gap will need be set accordingly to the voltage of the coil..

[blucarsdn]

I'm a very big fan of the Pertronix ignitions, I have ran, or am running them on every non electronic ignition vehicle I have had for the past thirty years. I even had one in the engine in my boat, a '77 Ford 460. I had to replace it when my son inlaw broke the marine ignition doing some maintenance work..

I have never had a problem with a Pertronix, I have found that they have to be installed per Pertronix' instructions..

[oldschool47]

Thanks for all the great responses I definitely have more homework to do.

 

Basically installing it in my other car was fine once you get the gaps straight.  The improvement in MPG was minimal around 1-2 but the big improvement was in idling and throttle response.  With a low compression flat six I know the way to go is the cam/dual carb/exhaust but at the moment anything I can do to help enjoy a stock setup and possibly increase reliability would be a plus.  Plus I just put $2500 into fixing previous problems I didn't know existed DOH! Definitely though if I hold on to her as long as I predict my motor will get a proper teardown and rebuild with Don's suggestions.

 

The other thing is Pertronix is pretty much plug and play and going back to points or stock is simple enough other than running the wires out and all.I remember having to open up the gap quite a bit for all the plugs but that isn't a big deal.

 

I have to say since purchasing this car in September it has been a blast learning so much about these cars and their knowledgeable owners! 

[oldschool47]

If there are any other threads on the subject let me know, I couldn't find anything myself unless I typed the wrong keywords in.

 

Bottom line is other than rainy days this car seems to run consistently well despite some slight hesitation here and there after a full carb rebuild.

[Plymouthy Adams]

you need to be at the top of the forum for a word search...else if you do it within a thread..you get just that limited thread result...trust me a search on Pertronix  will return three pages of individual threads

[Don Coatney]

oldschool47, on 12 Nov 2014 - 2:32 PM, said:

If there are any other threads on the subject let me know, I couldn't find anything myself unless I typed the wrong keywords in.

 

 

This subject has been beat to death. Keyword Pertronix nets 3 pages worth of threads.

 

http://p15-d24.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&section=search&do=search&fromsearch=1

[DJ194950]

Suggest when a search for this is done to use All forum search as Pertronix Q&A are on several different forums.

 

DJ

[oldschool47]

I think that is why I didn't get any results.  Thanks...I'll adjust my search.  Trust me I tried to use it !

 

Sorry guys...thanks for the replies

Edited November 13, 2014 by oldschool47

[Go Fleiter]

I use the Pertronix on my stock P23 , they made a 6 V variety  a couple of years ago.

Just specify plus or minus groundet for Your 12 V car!

Since a contact mess in the 2007 holidays in France ( no help available) I use the Pertronix with their flame thrower coil.

You can stay with your true coil anyhow.

No trouble anymore, only once a loose distributor- to- engineblock- skrew...

i highly recommend these contact-free System!

Greetings from Düsseldorf!

Go

[cavisco1]

• Delivers twice the voltage to the spark plugs, increasing horsepower, fuel economy, and spark plug life

High voltage claims are somewhat irrelevant. The voltage will only go high enough to jump the gap of the plug under compression. Claims of "HIGH VOLTAGE" are just so much marketing hype. A more meaningful measurement is the joules rating of the coil used with the ignition system. Horsepower, fuel economy and spark plug life should all increase with any electronic ignition upgrade.

• 2:1 improvement over points in current fall time for increased coil output

I think they are talking about the time that current is flowing during the spark event. This is mostly a function of the joules rating of the coil and the ability of the switching device to fully saturate the coil between spark events and the ability of the coil field to fully discharge during the spark event. Some systems monitor duty cycle to actively manage dwell time to ensure a full charge to the coil field between spark events. I don't know if Pertronix does this or not, but they probably do since this has been common in OEM units since the late '70s. Basically any modern electronic ignition system with a matched coil can achieve this range of improvement if not better.

• Rotating cobalt magnets trigger a Hall Effect integrated circuit . ...no points to burn, ...no moving parts to wear out

This claim is true for the Pertronix, but is also true for most other modern electronic ignition system.

• Epoxy molding makes our module impervious to dirt, oil, grease and moisture

Another good feature of the Pertronix system as well as most other OEM and after-market electronic ignition systems.

• Fits entirely inside the distributor

One of the nice features of Pertronix system is the ease of installation. Adapting later model OEM electronic ignition systems to an older engine can require some fabrication skills. Pertronix has done a fine job of making their system easy to retrofit into a wide variety engines including 6v units.

• No "black box to clutter the engine compartment

Keeps your OEM look with your original distributor. An important feature for some owners.

• Stable timing ...no need for any adjustments

True for Pertronix and as well as most other OEM and after-market electronic ignition systems.

• Will trigger most multi-spark CD ignitions

True for Pertronix. Others may or may not have this feature. If this is an important requirement for your application, be sure to read and understand all documentation carefully before spending your cash.

• Use with Flame-Thrower® 40,000 volt coil for optimal performance (INCLUDED)

It is my understanding that the Flame-Thrower coil is a good unit and it's always best to use matched components for best results; just don't be taken in by the marketing hype of HIGH VOLTAGE. The 40000 volt claim is an open circuit measurement across a VERY WIDE gap. Nothing you will ever see in your engine with normal spark plugs. Use some caution when using modern high output coils with older engines. Some older distributor caps have a smaller diameter and are shorter than modern units and can arc over when using a high output coil.

• Available for 6 and 12-volt negative and positive ground systems

I think Pertronix is one of the few ignition vendors to offer a 6v solution. Kudos to them for offering a 6v solution.

 

If you already converted to 12v Negative ground, why not go with Langstons mini-HEI solution or a modified slant six distributor? The modified slant six electronic ignition distributor will trigger a Mopar electronic ignition module or a GM HEI module. Repair parts are available at any parts store and matching components are easy to source new or used from the donor vehicle.

 

An '80s era gray Ford TFI ignition module and matching coil can be triggered by points if you wish to keep your original distributor for an inexpensive electronic ignition solution available from a junkyard near you. Since the points current to trigger the TFI module is very low, points life is essentially limited to the life of the rub block on the points.

 

Good luck with your project and let us know what you decide to use and how it works out for you.

 

Scott.

Edited November 14, 2014 by cavisco1

[cavisco1]

Oldschool47,

 

Here is a site on how to use the Ford TFI module with points.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417099

Cheap and easy way to convert to electronic ignition with your existing distributor.

How to identify TFI modules.

http://www.myo-p.com/Ford-EEC/EEC%20Help%20files/Files/TFI_grey_or_black.html

[55 Fargo]

Oldschool47,

 

Here is a site on how to use the Ford TFI module with points.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417099

Cheap and easy way to convert to electronic ignition with your existing distributor.

How to identify TFI modules.

http://www.myo-p.com/Ford-EEC/EEC%20Help%20files/Files/TFI_grey_or_black.html

Hi Cavisco1, this sounds interesting, and would like to ry this method. am already 12 volt neg grnd.

i am looking for smother idle and running, would this conversion makes this possible....

[cavisco1]

Fargos-Go-Far,

 

I think this would be a big improvement over a standard points system. Since the points will no longer be carrying the primary coil current, the points life will be almost indefinite. The rub block will probably wear out before the contact tips. The gray TFI module automatically adjust dwell time for the best coil charge. The TFI module and matching coil from a 1992 F150 4.9l should work. If you grab the parts from a wreaking yard get the coil and module along with it's heatsink and connector with as much of the harness as you can get. Be sure to disconnect the condenser in your distributor if you do this mod. One nice thing about this mod besides the low cost is it's easy to reverse if you don't like it. The matching Ford coil is a hot coil, so make sure the rest of your ignition system is in top shape. The 4.9l F150 coil is an e-core coil, but you can use any good 12v round coil. No ballast resistor required.

 

Scott.

Edited November 15, 2014 by cavisco1

[55 Fargo]

Fargos-Go-Far,

 

I think this would be a big improvement over a standard points system. Since the points will no longer be carrying the primary coil current, the points life will be almost indefinite. The rub block will probably wear out before the contact tips. The gray TFI module automatically adjust dwell time for the best coil charge. The TFI module and matching coil from a 1992 F150 4.9l should work. If you grab the parts from a wreaking yard get the coil and module along with it's heatsink and the connector with as much of the harness as you can get. Be sure to disconnect the condenser in your distributor if you do this mod. One nice thing about this mod besides the low cost is it's easy to reverse if you don't like it. The matching Ford coil is a hot coil, so make sure the rest of your ignition system is in top shape. The 4.9l F150 coil is an e-core coil, but you can use any good 12v round coil. No ballast resistor required.

 

Scott.

Thanx, going to try this out, as soon as I can get to the pick and pay yards. Should be a lot of these around. Should i pull the ballast resistor out of the coil circuit?

[Jeff Balazs]

I have been using the Pertronix 6 volt positive ground set up now for several months. It is a very simple installation. Works great with very quick starts. With a spare in the glove box I definitely won't be going back to points system.  

Jeff

[cavisco1]

Thanx, going to try this out, as soon as I can get to the pick and pay yards. Should be a lot of these around. Should i pull the ballast resistor out of the coil circuit?

Depends upon the coil. If your existing coil requires a ballast then keep it in circuit to prevent damaging the coil. The Ford coils that match the TFI module do not require a ballast.

 

Scott

[55 Fargo]

Depends upon the coil. If your existing coil requires a ballast then keep it in circuit to prevent damaging the coil. The Ford coils that match the TFI module do not require a ballast.

 

Scott

So pick-up for the TFI before the ballast? for full 12 volts

[cavisco1]

If you are keeping your existing coil and ballast, just leave the existing ballast connection in place between 12v and the coil.