Car is back together but still won’t start!

[Ulu]

That hole in the carb can be plugged with a lead ball, driven in with a punch. The factory plug is probably brass. I doesn't need to be brass, but it has to be metal, driven in tight enough to make a metal-to-metal seal, yet not so hard as to crack the carb please.

 

You might have to make /try a couple sizes of lead before you get one that fits. You can drip blobs of hot solder onto a clean steel plate to make plugs of different sizes to try. Lead is easy to shape to the size needed.

 

IMO, you want to rebuild this engine and only need some motivation and money. For more motivation, have a good look inside the cooling system. Think about new freeze plugs at least. How much oil is on the front side of the flywheel? Is there lots of slop in the timing chain?

[perrymedik]

Dodgeb4ya:  This one by far!!  But I have gained very useful insights from all of them as there are different members with different experiences that offer advice all around.  In my mind if there are multiple venues to learn from, why not use them?

 

 

Shel_ny: I agree, it's not crazy talk, but if I can avoid it I would like to.  Problem is that I am trying to take all of them out so that I can clean, lap, and reseat all of them.  Why not, I've got this thing broken down to parade rest anyway.  Plus getting them all out will allow me to clean those valve chambers much better.

 

Ulu: That's a pretty cool idea using the solder!!  I think I'll give that a go around this evening.  As for the engine rebuild, it would be more money than motivation (I think.  Perhaps a health dose of fear about not getting it put back together correctly.)  I pulled the freeze plugs last night and posted that epic journey on my "Best way to flush the Cooling System" topic.  And it was a journey, let me tell you!  As for amount of oil on the front side flywheel, I don't know, but I will check.  I also don't know how much slop is in the timing chain as I haven't seen it.

But its bright and early and I've already made my first run to NAPA, now I'm off to follow up on the recommendations everyone has been giving me!!

 

Thanks to all!!

Cory

[perrymedik]

BOOM!!

 

It’s OUT!!!  It was magical!!!  It really was!

 

I used the method Shel_ny suggested of moving the valve up by rotating the engine, blocking the spring, rotating the tappet assembly down again, then playing whack a mole on the valve.  I used Don Coatney’s recommendation of a large drift and small hammer. 

 

 

Two taps and it dropped.  My magnet caught the keepers and the blocks and spring were removed!  It was great!! 

 

The spring was in worse shape then I thought.  Good thing a new one is on the way!

 

 

Now I have to figure out how to get the valve guide out.  Does it push up and out, or down and out?  I’m thinking down and out, other wise I would think the action of the spring and valve would push it up into the valve every time it rises.

 

Now for the rest of the valves!

 

I love progress!!

 

Many thanks to Shel_ny and Don Coatney for your help with this!  And thank you to everyone else involved!  Without you I will still be at square one!!

 

More to follow!

 

Cory

[Don Coatney]

If one spring broke how long before the rest follow suit? Suggest you replace them all. Read in the resources section of this webpage specific procedures on valve guide replacement. I don't believe you will find this information in the service manual.

 

[Dave72dt]

Is there a particular reason for replacing the guide? Valve fits well, or should, if it stuck open.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Dave72dt, on 10 Nov 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

Is there a particular reason for replacing the guide? Valve fits well, or should, if it stuck open.

Bingo...PM sent.....do read the book again for this procedure.....you will quickly see what folks here are trying to tell you...

[Dodgeb4ya]

R&R'ing a flathead valve guide is not a simple task for a DIY'er.

 

Valve guides are driven down with a quality guide driver of the correct size and then broken off in pieces before it will hit the tappet.

 

I'd be careful as to how much work you do on this engine before you even get it running. The insides did not look too good.

Bob

[_shel_ny]

I did not look at all the linked pics.

Were it mine, I would do some clean up. Put the spring in. Get it started. Drive it for a while to evaluate the condition. Not much expense in doing that. That may help determine the practicality/impracticality of a $2000 rebuild. You have all winter (such as winter is in VA) to improve the engine if needed.

 

My opinion. Take it as such.

[perrymedik]

Agreed.  Leaving valve guides in place.  I was under the impression before I had removed the others that I was going to be in need of replacing the valve as well, but now that I have other Exhaust valves out and can compare them I see no need to.  My service manual recommends that when replacing a valve, that the guide needs to be replaced, so that's where that came from.

[Dave72dt]

the first determination in a case like that would be why the valve itself would need to be replaced.  Worn valve stems, bent stem or something along those lines could well indicate a worn guide also.  If the valves are not worn and the clearances are within specs, there is no need to replace them.

[Ulu]

These old engines are so tough that even worn out they'll still run. With sticky valves and fat clearances they"ll clatter and smoke, but if all you do is slap it back together with one new spring it'll probably still run for hundreds of miles.

 

I ran one old Ford six until the clearances were so loose I was putting 4 pints of STP in with 3 quarts of 10-40 wt oil. 

 

Of course I live in the desert. If you did that in Minnesota, you'd have to put a heater under the oil pan or it'd never start between October and March. 

[Don Coatney]

My first P-15 was that rare 5 cylinder model. For that engine to carry any oil pressure I added 1 pint of STP every time I got gas. But I drove that thing on 100 mile round trips and always made it home.

[perrymedik]

Valves are out!!

 

And cleaned up!!!

 

It’s like new money!!

 

Going to clean the intake and exhaust seats in the morning along with the valve chamber.

 

Hopefully the Freeze Plugs will be in and I can seal that up too!

 

Next project for the evening is making a plug for the carb.

[perrymedik]

I’m sure tricks like this are old hat to you experienced wrench turners out there, but this is my first and it’s rather exciting!!  I used the suggestion of making a ball out of solder.  It took some trial and error, but I got it!  I set it in using a drift punch and some very light hammer tapping.

 

Now here’s to hoping that it doesn’t fall out! LOL!

 

[Niel Hoback]

Nice work. There's nothing like on-the-job training. Lessons you never forget.

[perrymedik]

Rain, rain, GO AWAY!!!!

[perrymedik]

Look at what my absolutely awesome wife got for me today while she was out so I could keep working and keep the car dry while it's raining and ugly out!!

[Reg Evans]

Wow ! A cool car and a cool wife.

[Ulu]

That instant garage looks interesting. I'm working under a tarp here.

 

Welcome to the too-many-cars-to-get-them-all-in-the-garage club. ;-)

 

[perrymedik]

I like how much space you have though!  It looks roomier then mine.

[Ulu]

It's 10x20 & hangs from the house on one side with 4 legs on the other. It's stabilized on one end by my chain link dog kennel. It's just built from chain-link fence poles and clamps.

 

But it's not tall, because I don't want it to show above my fence too much. When I need more height I can shim up the low side temporarily, but then it wouldn't drain if it rains, so I have to let it back down on rainy days.

 

(We've had three in the past 5 years I believe...)

[perrymedik]

Quick question.

 

I was chasing all of the manifold bolts with a tap in preparation of getting new head bolts, and when I was looking down the bolt holes and coolant holes along the passenger side, above the valves, I notices these rods running the length of the motor from front to back and then curving downward at the very back of the motor then disappearing. 

 

I can’t find any reference to them in my Service Manual or Parts book.

 

Anyone have any idea what they are?  I’m just curious as to what they are.  They are too long to just be foreign debris.

 

Thanks!

 

Cory

 

[Merle Coggins]

I think you may have been seeing the top edge of the water distribution tube that runs form the water pump to the back of the block and dispurses coolant evenly around the valves.

 

Merle

[perrymedik]

Really?  Those little things?  I would put good money they are clogged up.  I'll have to check my Service Manual to see how to access the ends of them and maybe blow compressed air or something through them or something.

[casper50]

that's only the top edge.  They are over an inch in height.