Car is back together but still won’t start!

[perrymedik]

Got the 49 P-18 all put back together after doing all of that work that you have all helped me with:

 

- Replaced Generator with Alternator

- Replaced Manifold Thermostat

- Cleaned out oil Pan

- Flushed coolant system

- Primed Fuel System

 

Here are the symptoms:

- Turn the key, motor makes turning sound, but no attempt to fire.  After enough turns, fuel begins to pour out of them over flow hole in the bottom of the Carburetor.

 

 

Here is what I do know:

 

1. New Fuel Pump works because it is flooding the Carb to the point it overflows.

2. The car has been sitting for 3-4 years since the last time I worked on it to get it started.  Parts that I installed at that time:

            -Reconditioned Carb

            -Spark plug wires (self cut to length type)

            -Spark plugs (replaced again last week just in case)

            -Ignition coil

            -Distributor cap

            -Condenser

            -Rotor Cap

3. I was able to visualize the cylinders moving with the plugs out when the motor was turned by the starter.

4. Spark plug wires were checked with Ohm Meter to verify conductivity.

5. Compression for the cylinders were checked with the following results in PSI:

            1. 0 (Obviously an issue)

            2. 100

            3. 95

            4. 110

            5. 105

            6. 95

6. Battery is brand new (One week old).

 

Here is what I don’t know:

 

1. Will the lack of compression in cylinder 1 prevent the motor from trying to start?

2. The Carb was received as reconditioned new.  How do I know it set properly?

3. Why the car is over flowing on start up.  The gas pedal is not being held down.

4. How do I verify that the plugs are sparking?

5. Why won’t my car start?!?!?!?!? J

 

I’m going to go bang my head against a wall for a while now while all you great folks tell me what to next (and I will accept taking a long walk off a short pier as a reasonable suggestion! LOL!).

Thanks for everything!

 

Cory

[Merle Coggins]

Do you have a timing light? If so you can connect it to a spark plug wire and see if it flashes when cranking. This will verify that there's electrical current in the plug wire. Otherwise the other check is to remove a spark plug and reconnect it to the plug wire and let it ground out against the head. Now crank the engine and see if there is any spark.

 

As for the carb overflowing... you may have some debris in the needle/seat for the float, or the float may be set way too high. You may need to take the top off the carb and inspect that.

 

Three things are needed to make an engine run;

1. Air in the cylinder to compress. (you may have a stuck valve on #1. It should still start but will run rough until it frees up)

2. Fuel in the correct amount to mix with the air

3 Spark at the correct time. (may need to recheck your timing. There is a static timing procedure that should be followed)

 

Good luck,

Merle

[Plymouthy Adams]

have you even consulted your repair manual for any of the ignition tests and or looked into the carb section for setting/checking float operation/height...and though you did do a obvious tune up..was it with the correct cap and rotor for your specific distributor?

[_shel_ny]

Link to "static timing" procedure.

 

http://p15-d24.com/page/p15d24/tech/tech_tips.html#static

[Ulu]

DON'T crank the engine with a wire off to test the spark while the carb is flooding gas out the vent hole!

 

We had a mechanic do this, and set a $50,000 road roller on fire. Scared the pi$$ outta him too.

 

He shoveled enough dirt over the engine to quash the fire, with the air cleaner off of course 

[1941Rick]

To start with the float on the carb is not shutting off the flow of fuel. Needle is stuck open.....dirt?

One dead cylinder should not prevent the engine from starting. Can you hear any popping noises in the exhaust or intake when cranking the engine.....Stuck valve?

Check the oil filler and see if it puffs while cranking.....bad piston.....

Timing next.

[perrymedik]

Merele Coggins: I do not have a timing light, though I guess I should.  Sounds like a tool buying opportunity!

 

Shel_ny: Thanks for the link!

 

Ulu: LOL!  Good call!

 

1941 Rick: The needle could be stuck open, but as it is new I would guess it's more of a setting thing.  Trying to figure out how to have it set for first time use.

 

Looks like I have a few good places to start testing tomorrow!  I'll keep you posted and come back begging for more tomorrow! LOL!

 

Cory

[perrymedik]

[perrymedik]

Would one of these be useful in determining if my spark plugs are getting power to them?

 

http://s245.photobucket.com/user/perrymedik/media/1949%20P-18%20Rebuild%20Project/Photoon11-4-14at752PM.jpg.html?filters[user]=61355325&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

[Ulu]

They made a different one specifically for that. They used to have little fluorescent bulbs, but may be LEDs nowadays.

 

But it's easy to check for a spark just with a lose plug wire. Don't hold it in your bare hand. Use insulated pliers or something wood or rubber to hold it.

 

That 15,000 volt spark tickles when it's working. 

 

Just get that float leveled first.

 

Normally you take the carb off, take the bowl cover off, & flip the carb over, then use a little cardboard gage they supply with the overhaul kit. Otherwise the factory manual tells how to just measure the float adjustment.

 

I have the Holly model 1920 with the Vis-A-Flow glass float bowl cover (I don't run the Carter carb) and you can just see if the fuel level is OK.

 

(I only used that glass bowl for setup. I don't think they're really safe myself. On the street I run the Holly aluminum bowl cover. 

[_shel_ny]

These are inexpensive. Can use to check for spark at each cylinder, and can be used at the #1 cyl when setting the distributor to fire the cyl at the right time.

[Jerry Roberts]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... The needle could be stuck open, but as it is new I would guess it's more of a setting thing ...  

 

Cory

 

Even though you carb is new or rebuilt , all it takes is a couple of small particles of debris to hold that little valve open when it should be closed . This is the little valve right at the front where the gas goes in . The debris could have come from your fuel line or gas tank . 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2014 by Jerry Roberts

[perrymedik]

So a quick question about the carb.  If the engine were running would the carb still be overflowing like that?

[DonaldSmith]

The carb will overflow while the fuel pump is working, if the float needle doesn't seat properly.  The manual pump will work while the engine is running.  An electric pump will work as long as it has electricity, which is why some cars have a reset switch, which is sensitive to impact.  

[perrymedik]

Update 1:  I verified power to the plugs using this Inline Spark Tester I picked up on the way home today.

 

http://s245.photobucket.com/user/perrymedik/media/1949%20P-18%20Rebuild%20Project/Photoon11-5-14at1015AM.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

 

I was able to witness the light flash for every cylinder.  However it was not a very bright light.  I don’t know if it is because the tester may be designed for a 12v system, but I would assume that a flashing bulb means the plugs are getting power. 

 

I’ll be moving on to the Carb now.  Perhaps the engine is fuel starved?  Checking Float, needles, settings, etc.!

 

 

On a side note, I’ve ordered a 6v Timing Gun.  While I do not believe that I altered the timing, at this point, who knows. . .  If the carb isn’t the problem I’ll use the static timing method to try to get her in the ball park.

[Don Coatney]

With the engine running and the fuel pump pumping and the carburetor overflowing it is doubtful the engine will run long as it will flood the intake manifold with raw un-vaporized  gasoline and kill the engine.

[perrymedik]

Update 2:

 

-Verified that the float was clean, mobile and set at correct height.

- Checked mixture screw and found it was backed out about 3 turns (would that cause the flooding?).  Book says ½ to 1 ½ turns so I set it at 1 full turn.

-Tested Outlet Valve Ball per Service Manual and found it to perform as desired.

 

MORE ABOUT THE LEAK: What I thought was an overflow port on the bottom of the carb turns out the be where the main metering passage is.  My book shows a plug of some sort.  Guess what my carb does not have?  A plug!  You can see the rod inside clear as day!  I would assume that this means that the fuel isn’t getting up the vent tube to the main discharge nozzle and thus not making it to the plugs so that it can fire!!

 

I am sure no one will have that on hand at the local auto store.  I’ll try to temporarily plug it and see what happens then (while I try to find somewhere that sells the plug that is supposed to go in it.

 

Also: How do I know if the linkage rod going from the accelerator to the choke tube bracket assembly is set correctly? 

[Young Ed]

A good rebuild kit will have those aluminum plugs in them. I believe the kits I get at Napa have them.

[perrymedik]

Ill check with NAPA.  Thanks!

[perrymedik]

Update 3:

 

I put a temp plug in the Main Metering Jet hole and gave it a few more cranks with some results.

 

This time I would occasionally get a hollow sounding pop that kind of seemed to be coming out of the carb, but as I was in the cab of the car I’m not sure.  I messed around opening and closing the Choke valve but no definitive results from that.  I’ll give it a few more whirls, but am not hopeful.

 

Will check the Static Timing if it doesn’t suddenly spring to life as I can not be certain that I didn’t mess with it years ago.

[perrymedik]

STUPID QUESTION TIME:

 

Where is cylinder #1 located?  I am under the assumption that it is in the front (next to the radiator).

 

I ask because the link that shel_ny gave me earlier for static timing says that the rotor head should be in the 7 o'clock position for TDC of cylinder 1.  I've been rotating the motor back and forth to get it there but no dice.  Then on a lark I put my tester in the cylinder against fire wall and ta da, TDC at 7 o'clock.  If #1 is in the back then all my plugs are wired up wrong, which would be super simple to fix.

[casper50]

#1 is in the front

[Merle Coggins]

You could have your distributor in 180 degrees off which would cause the spark to happen at the end of the exhaust stroke instead of at the end of the compression stroke. This can cause popping and back firing out the tail pipe when trying to start it.

If you've verified that #6 is getting spark when #1 is at TDC, on it's compression stroke, then you need to pull out the distributor and rotate the rotor 1/2 turn and put the distributor back in. Then reset your static timing and try again.

 

Merle

Edited November 5, 2014 by Merle Coggins

[_shel_ny]

1 and 6 are at TDC at the same time. one compression stroke, one on exhaust stroke. You need to determine when #1 is on the compression stroke. Put a piece of masking tape over the hole. With all the plugs out, turn by engine by hand and watch for the tape to be blown off.

[Phil Martin]

Take carb off and look in manifold to see if gas is standing in it. Mine flooded like that and had about a half inch of gas in manifold. My dodge floods very easy I have to be real careful starting it.i Have electric fuel pump and have to keeo the pressure turned down low or it will over flow the carb.