Fuel additives, lead?

[Mattias78]

Hi!

I have a question!

My dodge 48 will arrive to swedish port tomorrow!

And would of like to get i running asap!

Here in Sweden we need to put a lead additive in the gas for older cars!

I guess the same goes for the straight six that is in my car?

Just want to be 100% before a fil it up:)

/Mattias.

[Don Coatney]

There is no need to add lead additive to old Mopars as they have hardened exhaust valve seats. Lead is not required. Your engine will run much cleaner without lead.

[Mattias78]

Thanks Don!!

One less think to worry about!

/Mattias

[greg g]

Most of today;s fuels are formulated much differently than in 1948. Don't know about Europe but we all deal with ethanol at about 10% volume. Other items lead to a more volatile (evaporates more easily) mix also. many of us have found that lowering the carburetor float about 1/32 in fro factory helps prevent fuel percolation when the under hood temps get higher as the summer goes on. A couple tell tails for this are hard hot starts and raw fuel visible at the throttle plate pivot pin bushings or accumulating on the exterior of the intake manifold beneath the carb. As part of the initial start up condition i would suggest a compression test of each cylinder. You are looking for fairly even readings across the cylinders. Any thing above 70 lbs per cylinder with less than a 10 psi difference across the engine is an indication that the engine should start and run on all cylinders. These engines tend to stuck valves if they sit for extended periods. So if you have a cylinder or two that are noticeably lower than the rest it is likely due to valves stuck open. Good luch and have fun.

[casper50]

We are a little lucky on gas in Alaska.  None in the state has ethanol in it.  But we pay more per gallon that the lower 48 also.

[Mattias78]

Thanks Greg for all the good info!!

I'll will check the compression before i go out on to long trips!

Have a lot of red tape to go thru before i can get it out on the road!

Thanks!

[DJ194950]

We are a little lucky on gas in Alaska.  None in the state has ethanol in it.  But we pay more per gallon that the lower 48 also.

Ya,  fuel may cost more but the state also gives you a check for your share of the crude oil pumped in the state to help pay the higher prices!

 

Doug

[blucarsdn]

As it has already been stated.. Many of the older engines from the the mid '30's through the late '50's generally have hardened valves and/or seats.. This is due to the poor quality of the fuel and the economy during that period of time.. Not everyone could afford the higher priced "Eythel" fuels..

I was recently talking to my tuneup man about fuels for older cars.. I tend to think that most fuel and/or oil additives are like the 'Old Snake Oil" that the traveling medcine men sold to cure all of the perceived sickness's that people had..

My tuneup man told me that he is telling all of his customers with older, pre-catalitic converter cars, to add 4 oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil per 10 gal of fuel. He has found that the MMO stops the early faiure of plunger type accellerator pumps, and fuel pumps.Of course the MMO also acts as a very good upper cylinder lubricant..

I know from first hand experience that I have had a lot of carb and fuel pump issues during the past few years.. Even making sure that new fuel pumps are designed to handle the new unleaded fuels, does not stop them from failing.. 

[Don Coatney]

Why does a flathead Mopar need "upper cylinder" lubrication? What is there to Lubricate? That sound to me like snake oil.

[JDaniel64]

Regular fuel pre-1955 was some pretty nasty stuff indeed, had an octane in the 70's, and it was high in sulfur and oxygen which made it smell pretty foul and really promoted varnishing. This fuel was also really corrosive to engine parts too. The refinery I work at used to mix TEL with gasoline all the way into the early 1990's, just a little bit went a long way in improving the octane of fuel and deterred it from absorbing moisture. More refining of the fuel was needed to replace the lost octane that the TEL used to provide since it was phased out, that's why unleaded premium was more expensive that leaded.

[Don Coatney]

 that's why unleaded premium was more expensive that leaded.

Interesting information. I always thought the increased price on non leaded gasoline was a marketing ploy to benefit the refineries. I could never figure out how removing an ingredient (lead) would increase the price. Thanks for posting.

[ChrisRice]

Just to add my cents, even though it's not worth more than one. I don't uses lead additive in mine, however I do have to use a non-ethanol fuel. It runs with no problems that I have seen so far. However, it refuses to run on 10 percent ethanol fuels, which means I have to find places that sell non ethanol fuels before going on trips. Any ideas as to why? Luckily, a place around the corner sells it.

[casper50]

When I owned my 48 Stinson plane with an STC for auto gas, (means that I could legally use auto fuel), I was told no ethanol fuel.

[Mattias78]

As far as i know the gas with less % ethanol i can get i Sweden is the one with about 5% ethanol in it!

So i hope i can run it on that with no problem!

The think is it's getting harder and harder to find gas stations that have it!

Most people run their cars on the 10% gas/ ethanol!

[Desotodav]

I was surprised on my recent trip to California that our fuel octane ratings here in Oz are much higher than over there. Our low rated ethanol-based fuel has a 91 octane rating, and the other fuels have 95 and 98 ratings. I find that the lower rated fuel will go stale within a few weeks of sitting in the fuel tank, so I now run my 52 truck on the 98 rated fuel. I guess the real solution is that I should drive my truck more often! We are paying around $1.80 per liter for 98 rated fuel at present, which (using the formula 1 US gal = 3.78541 liters) equates to around $6.81 per gallon in USA talk. 

[TodFitch]

I was surprised on my recent trip to California that our fuel octane ratings here in Oz are much higher than over there. Our low rated ethanol-based fuel has a 91 octane rating, and the other fuels have 95 and 98 ratings. . . .

How do they specify the octane listed on the pump? In the US it is required to be the average of the octane ratings determined by the "motor octane number" (MON) and the "research octane number" (RON). Generally the RON about 10 points higher than the MON and in the old days the gas companies advertised RON. A guess of 5 points between the average and the RON is reasonable. So 87 (RON+MON)/2 probably maps into something around 92 (RON).

 

Edit: From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating it looks like Canada and the US use the R+M/2 labeling while most of the rest of the world including Australia use the RON number. So yes, add about 5 point to the US numbers to get the Australian numbers for the same fuel.

[Desotodav]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating it looks like Canada and the US use the R+M/2 labeling while most of the rest of the world including Australia use the RON number. So yes, add about 5 point to the US numbers to get the Australian numbers for the same fuel.

 

Interesting info Tod as that explains the difference in ratings at the pumps. So I am running my truck on what would be about 93 octane rating in USA. Still way too expensive here in Oz IMO.

[BigDaddyO]

Why does a flathead Mopar need "upper cylinder" lubrication? What is there to Lubricate? That sound to me like snake oil.

It lubricates the piston rings and keeps them from making scratchy noises on the cylinder walls.

[Don Coatney]

It lubricates the piston rings and keeps them from making scratchy noises on the cylinder walls.

Sorry, I don't agree. I still think upper cylinder lubrication is snake oil. I have never heard the scratchy noise unless the engine runs out of oil. If upper cylinder lubricant was required the engineers at Chrysler would have mandated its use.

[greg g]

How does something added to gasolene fuel do any thing but burn up when the fuel charge is ignited? Wht is left to lubricate anything? If anything is left behind it would seem to be chiefly unburned hydrocarbons left in the form of carbon deposits. Oh wait there are products sold to clean those uo also.......

[casper50]

Some oil or lead is left.  That's why 2 stroke engines keep on running. Oil in the gas. One use for lead is as a lubricant.

[Niel Hoback]

  The theory is that the incoming charge goes past the intake valves and is supposed to lubricate the stems and guides. What it actually does is stick to the valve stems and cook into a nasty black tar-like substance that can make the valves stick after prolonged sitting cold.  At least that's what it did for me.  I have to agree with Don, if it really needed lubrication in that area, Chrysler would have know and compensated for it.  Its like gilding a lily, looks good, but ruins the lily. 

[Don Coatney]

Some oil or lead is left.  That's why 2 stroke engines keep on running. Oil in the gas. One use for lead is as a lubricant.

Sorry, I disagree. The oil mixture in a 2 stroke engine lubricates the lower end not the upper end. There are no valves in a 2 stroke engine. Only ports that do not move. And a 2 stroke engine requires 2 stroke oil specially formulated to not lose lubricity when mixed with gasolene. If regular engine oil is used in a 2 stroke the engine will fail in short order due to lack of lower end lubrication.

[55 Fargo]

Sorry, I disagree. The oil mixture in a 2 stroke engine lubricates the lower end not the upper end. There are no valves in a 2 stroke engine. Only ports that do not move. And a 2 stroke engine requires 2 stroke oil specially formulated to not lose lubricity when mixed with gasolene. If regular engine oil is used in a 2 stroke the engine will fail in short order due to lack of lower end lubrication.

Yup, and I use quality synthetic  2 stroke oil via injection type for Son's Yamaha 200cc Blaster and ME engine oil for crankcase.... i

[BigDaddyO]

I was only being a smart acre as I know what a 'hot button' this topic is.

I have used Marvel Mystery Oil in the past on stuck motors and it seems to work as well as anything else I've tried.

I liked the can it came in.

Now I use kerosene almost exclusively to loosen things.

If this article I am trying to post comes through, it explains things fairly well although there is no mention of MMO in it that I saw.

 

Car maintenance bibles_ Oil Additives.html