1 Ton 230/6 Trans or Overdrive Options

[bumpside]

Welcome. post a pic of the 47 parts truck and actually your 1ton too.

Thanks Ed!  I'll work on the PH pic but the parts truck is at dad's property in AZ, so any pics would be a while...

 

What gears do you currently have in the truck and what size tires?    I think the rear choices were 3.9, 4.3, and 4.8.  If you have the 4.8 and were able to find a 3.9 that would be an almost 20% reduction in rpms at any given speed and you don't have to mess with pulling the engine or fabbing up a parking/emergency brake.  If you've got 6.50's on the back and went to 7:50's that would also make a difference.  Another thing to consider is a mid 60's Ford F350 rear for a V-8.  They have the same 6 lug pattern, and may come in a higher ratio.  I'm pretty sure the perches would have to be relocated, but that would still be easier than pulling an engine or fabbing up a brake setup.  If that swap were to work, I believe you'd also get the advantage of self energizing rear brakes.   Mike

I'm guessing the 4.3 from feel but I'll have to check the count.  If there is a 3.9 available, that just might be enough to make the difference.  The question is who made the diff and where can I find the taller gears?  Once again, makes me appreciate my 9" in my 67 1/2 ton...  I'm starting to understand why all the silly Chevy guys go the way they do!

 

I believe another option on the diff would come from the larger Chrysler, Imperial, and DeSoto long wheel base sedans and/or limos of the 40's or early 50's. I think they have the same larger diff that may work in the 1 ton trucks and may come available with better highway gear ratios.  

 

Merle

That would be great but, here in SoCal at least, those are not easy parts cars to find.  They may be rust free but they don't get left out in fields anymore here either...

 

Welcome Bumpside.......from a La Habra alumni. Go Highlanders! My folks lived off Beach and Imperial for years. As a youngster I worked at Burch Ford......gone now but quite a place in it's hayday.

 

Have you looked at Dana 44s ? Might find something that would work there? I think there is still a custom rear axle builder off La Habra blvd. That might be another option. I have a 3/4 ton with a Grand Cherokee rear........each model Pilothouse has differences that effect the install.

 

As you have already found out this group is the best resource for anyone with a Pilothouse. Doing one without it is just plain silly.

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff!  So I'm going to have to ask, what year?  Me and my old man are both Highlanders - `91 for myself and `57 for my dad (first graduating class). 

 

I had a friend who worked at Burch at the end as a service writer and formed mechanic.  In fact, I think my "family original" truck was bought there by my uncle back in `67.  I was sad to see it go.  I even miss Don Steves Chevrolet too but I don't feel that as keenly even with my grandmother's `67 Camaro RS/SS that is still in the family coming from there. 

 

As for the axle builder, I'll have to look around.  I've always used a shop over by the 60 since we're up on Hacienda and it's about an even split in distance.  As for the Jeep rear, it's not an option.  If was I going to bastardize the axle in any way, I'd just find a way to use a full floater like a Dana 60/70/80.  In fact, I've got a trailer sitting on one right now that could probably be adapted to the 6 hole mount but just wouldn't be the same, so it's not likely.  That's not a bad idea though... but the tranny still hides better.

 

Also, GV got back to me.  They do have a divorced unit available with a whole box kit setup to mate to anything but it's $3K MSRP.  I'm thinking even if I found someone willing to discount it, there's not going to be a lot of room.  The T5 is looking better and better all the time.

 

Thanks again to everyone either way!  I'll agree that this is the place to come for Pilot House data too.  A good friend of the family has a fleet of 3 Pilots but he's a V8 guy like me, so they're all running LA's on propane/CNG.  His only 6 cylinder is in his `40 DeSoto that's also on propane/CNG with a 3spd/OD, so he's not really big on the truck details.  Anyway, thanks again guys!

[Dodgeb4ya]

Finding a 1940-52 Chrysler Crown Imperial (145"WB) rear end pumpkin is tough, although I have seen two of them in a wrecking yard on this board I think in Minnesota. The Crown Imp.ratio is 3:58 and uses 16 spline side gears same as the 1 ton trucks. The yoke would have to be swapped but thats about it.

I have one ready to put in my 1 ton but I also have a DT 2 ton syncro New Process 5speed OD trans I might use instead. I will toy with that more later.

The Eaton 1350 2 speed DT rear end is HUGE- 250 lbs just for the pumpkin and generally is a 5:83-8:11 ratio- uses 20" rims too.. Forget about that!

Bob

Edited February 7, 2014 by Dodgeb4ya

[pflaming]

Try http://www.globeclassiccarparts.com/   Last fall they bought a collection of some 200+ Chryslers mid-50's and older. Ask for Steve. Good luck.

Paul 

[bumpside]

Try http://www.globeclassiccarparts.com/   Last fall they bought a collection of some 200+ Chryslers mid-50's and older. Ask for Steve. Good luck.

Paul 

Thanks Paul!  We'll check into them.

 

Finding a 1940-52 Chrysler Crown Imperial (145"WB) rear end pumpkin is tough, although I have seen two of them in a wrecking yard on this board I think in Minnesota. The Crown Imp.ratio is 3:58 and uses 16 spline side gears same as the 1 ton trucks. The yoke would have to be swapped but thats about it.

I have one ready to put in my 1 ton but I also have a DT 2 ton syncro New Process 5speed OD trans I might use instead. I will toy with that more later.

The Eaton 1350 2 speed DT rear end is HUGE- 250 lbs just for the pumpkin and generally is a 5:83-8:11 ratio- uses 20" rims too.. Forget about that!

Bob

Wow, that's really cool.  If you don't use the NP 5 Speed, let me know.  I might be able to talk the old man into buying it for himself as it would be perfect for what he wants, assuming it is a bolt up to the 4 speed bell.  If you come across another one out there, let me know.

 

Meanwhile, we'll pursue the LWB Imperial too.  That might work but 3.58 is pretty tall for the old six.  Hmmm....

 

Thanks again!

 

Scott

[Don Coatney]

If you have any questions about the T-5 or anything else Gear Rhonda can be helpful.

 

CLICK HERE------>  http://www.5speeds.com/rhonda.html

[1952B3b23]

This may be helpful to you, maybe not... I just purchased an auxilary overdrive unit from Advanced Adapters, its called the Ranger OD. Im pairing it with a borgr warner T19 4 speed thats going in my Cummins 4bt swap into my 52 PH. If youre interested you can give Advanced Adapters a call and see if they have something to fit your application. It has the same function as a Gear Vendor unit but was half the price, thats why im using it. It does sound like the T5 swap and a new rear end may be the least expensive choice. Good Luck,

 

-Chris

[Young Ed]

Finding a 1940-52 Chrysler Crown Imperial (145"WB) rear end pumpkin is tough, although I have seen two of them in a wrecking yard on this board I think in Minnesota. The Crown Imp.ratio is 3:58 and uses 16 spline side gears same as the 1 ton trucks. The yoke would have to be swapped but thats about it.

I have one ready to put in my 1 ton but I also have a DT 2 ton syncro New Process 5speed OD trans I might use instead. I will toy with that more later.

The Eaton 1350 2 speed DT rear end is HUGE- 250 lbs just for the pumpkin and generally is a 5:83-8:11 ratio- uses 20" rims too.. Forget about that!

Bob

 

I believe that was me that posted them and they were/are at french lake auto parts.

[Dodgeb4ya]

It was you Ed that posted those wrecking yard pics with the 145" LWB Crown Imperials. They should have factory Ausc-Lambert disc brakes on them if no one pulled them off too.

[pflaming]

"1940-52 Chrysler Crown Imperial (145"WB) rear end pumpkin".   What advantage does this axle have over the Dana or the Wrangler, which I think is also called a Dana? 

[Jeff Balazs]

Scott;

After thinking about it that axle shop is probably off Lambert between La Habra and Harbor. It was still going strong a year or two ago.

You should be able to handle a 3.55 ratio.......my 3/4 ton does easily and I don't think even a 3.23 would be an issue. If you found something like this that fit it would surely be the most cost effective solution.

 

I graduated/escaped in '73. Old J.W. Burch was still around and the dealership did quite a business including fleet and heavy truck sales. He was quite a character. He had been the sheriff of Jackson Hole back in the day.....and started the dealership in 1929. There was even a rumor that he might have used "found loot" to open the business at the onset of the Depression. When I worked there he had a home in Palm Springs......next door to Bob Hope......and he spent quite a bit of time at the western White House counseling or perhaps consoling ........ Nixon. At any rate he took a liking to me and I spent a couple of days every month with him running errands and collecting rent checks from his considerable commercial real estate holdings. He was in his 80's, as sharp as a tack and downright formidable. When he was out and about on his own there was always an old Colt under the seat. First time I saw it I about ****. I asked him if it was loaded and he said "You don't ever want to find out the hard way."

I imagine his Grandson Marty was at the helm when they closed. He was a useless used car salesman back then. He wasn't allowed to step foot in the Main dealership when I worked there. I clearly remember the old man confiding in me that "That boy will be the death of me yet" Heis probably still rolling over in his grave.

 

Good luck with the truck .  Jeff

[ggdad1951]

Ed and I might have to back....might be a thing for FEFs future

[HotRodTractor]

I wouldn't be scared of the T5 transmission in a 1 ton Pilothouse application. The power and torque transmitted through it are low enough that it wouldn't matter. I think the early T5 transmissions were rated up to 265 ft-lbs of input torque and the rating only goes up from there. While they were not used in modern 1 ton trucks, the trucks during the era of the T5 had substantially HP and torque to drive them. I just aquired a 1 1/2T Pilothouse that I don't have home yet, but I have already debated on doing a T5 swap in it just to use it as a slow and steady farm truck hauling hay and feed a couple of times a month. I have enough parts kicking around to make it happen I believe.

[bumpside]

This may be helpful to you, maybe not... I just purchased an auxilary overdrive unit from Advanced Adapters, its called the Ranger OD. Im pairing it with a borgr warner T19 4 speed thats going in my Cummins 4bt swap into my 52 PH. If youre interested you can give Advanced Adapters a call and see if they have something to fit your application. It has the same function as a Gear Vendor unit but was half the price, thats why im using it. It does sound like the T5 swap and a new rear end may be the least expensive choice. Good Luck,

 

-Chris

Thanks but I'm already aware of the Ranger from my Ford chasing.  Ironically, I'm in the process of changing out the T18 in my big block truck for a T19 that I picked up from an 80's F350 diesel 4x4.  Plans call for a tail shaft swap and I need to make sure the input is the same but I'm hoping for a quick and easy way to get 4 usable gears (since I don't tow and have plenty of torque) with a tall pumpkin.  Anyway, they only make the Ranger in Ford and Chevy bell patterns, so I think it would require changing trannies anyway.  It's a perfect fit for your project and I'll be looking forward to hearing how it goes since we've talked about putting a Cummins in the flatbed anyway - that's all dad ran when he was driving his own truck for 40 years.  He loves the 6's but I've tried to convince him that the 6bt is just too large for the PH bay so I'm hoping your completed pics might convince him.

 

Thanks again for the lead.  I'd rather hear of all the ideas I'm already aware of twice than not hear about something that works!  BTW, good luck with the 4bt swap!

 

SLT

[1952B3b23]

Thanks but I'm already aware of the Ranger from my Ford chasing.  Ironically, I'm in the process of changing out the T18 in my big block truck for a T19 that I picked up from an 80's F350 diesel 4x4.  Plans call for a tail shaft swap and I need to make sure the input is the same but I'm hoping for a quick and easy way to get 4 usable gears (since I don't tow and have plenty of torque) with a tall pumpkin.  Anyway, they only make the Ranger in Ford and Chevy bell patterns, so I think it would require changing trannies anyway.  It's a perfect fit for your project and I'll be looking forward to hearing how it goes since we've talked about putting a Cummins in the flatbed anyway - that's all dad ran when he was driving his own truck for 40 years.  He loves the 6's but I've tried to convince him that the 6bt is just too large for the PH bay so I'm hoping your completed pics might convince him.

 

Thanks again for the lead.  I'd rather hear of all the ideas I'm already aware of twice than not hear about something that works!  BTW, good luck with the 4bt swap!

 

SLT

 

No problem, i figured id mention it. I think the ranger OD in my truck is going to be pretty awesome, ill be able to keep the motor right in its sweet spot for cruising (1700-2000 rpm). The fuel milage should be pretty damn good to, so im happy about that. Im also a huge fan of the Cummins power too, i think putting a 6bt in a pilothouse is doable but a really big undertaking. They are a very heavy beast close to 1000 lbs depending on which one you chose. I know the 2003 24 valve common rail in my pickup is just over 1000 lbs. So far it looks like the 4bt is going to fit well in the PH frame, it'll be tight but it fits so thats the most important part. Im going to try and put my cab on tomorrow and set the motor between the rails and take a look at the firewall mods that need to be done. Thanks for the interest in my build, if you wanna follow along heres the link, the builds on this forum:

 

http://p15-d24.com/topic/31694-1952-b3b-with-cummins-4bt/page-19

 

Good luck with the hunt.

 

-Chris 

[Young Ed]

Ed and I might have to back....might be a thing for FEFs future

 

Pick a date just pick a date....I've got lots of vacation time saved up

[NiftyFifty]

One thing I should say that was nice and another issue to remember, when I switched to the T-5 I also got my speedo within 2-3 mph of the actual GPS speed, and that's something to factor in. I believe you can get adapters built for almost anything, but in the long run its the all mighty dollar that reasons what you can and can't do.

I sometimes regret not just starting fresh with a whole new V8, and a different trans set up, but the old guys get a lot more joy looking under the hood of the old girl and seeing the flatty, the other mods are really invisible unless you know what your looking at

[pflaming]

". . . but the old guys get a lot more joy looking under the hood of the old girl and seeing the flatty."  I get similar responses and none encourage me to put in a V8. My only complaint is the sound at 65. Yet it is not a piercing sound that gets the ears ringing. I've driven it 120 miles in one stretch and no head ache or ringing ears. Yet I will eventually go 12 volt and put in an electric fan and better sound proofing material on the firewall.  

[KWCB2D126]

I have a 50 1 ton with 3.7 rear end with 235/85/16 tires. At 60 mph it's turning about 2300 RPM. It's a 3 on column. They had three gear ratios 3.70 4.10 and 4.56

[pflaming]

When I have my truck back on the road, will put on a tach and see what is going on. I have a 3.73 rear axle on a three speed. I'm very hard of hearing so my hearing aids may be accentuating the noise. I also have a Flow master muffler and a 2" pipe out from that so it may just be 'loud'.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I have a 50 1 ton with 3.7 rear end with 235/85/16 tires. At 60 mph it's turning about 2300 RPM. It's a 3 on column. They had three gear ratios 3.70 4.10 and 4.56

1 Tons came with a 3.9, 4.3 and a 4,89 ratio rear axle ratio.

Bob

[bumpside]

OK, so let's get this straight.  Is there a drop in set of gears that will work in the 1 ton rearend for a 3.7ish ratio?  That would solve all of our problems since the granny gear trans has deep enough gears to get anything moving.  I doubt the 3.9 would be enough change but I could be wrong.  I do know the current is deep, likely 4.57 or 4.89 but 4.30 would be a possibility too.  We're not looking for Bonneville here, just hitting 55 or 60 without winding out or running foot to the floor.  Anyway, where could we get such a beast?  Does Randy's carry them or someone else?  Hmmm...

[MBF]

My 49 1 ton has the 4.3.  It cruises comfortably at 45-48 actual w 6.50-16's in the back.  A 3.9 is going to give you about a 10% increase w/o changing the rear tire size.  I'm going to 7:00's in the back which should raise it a bit more.  I'd go to 7.50's but in a dual configuration the sidewalls would be touching.  Mike

[Dodgeb4ya]

You cannot go out and just find a drop in set of gears for the dodge 1 tons. Rear end gears and pumpkins have always been tough to find-especially a 3.9 ratio.

I have always wanted a really nice 3.9 ratio for my 1 ton and heve never found one that was tight and the gears pit free...in over 35 years!!!!

[jeffsunzeri]

So, Scott - welcome to the 1 ton dually club!

I'm with you and your Dad on the desire to get higher cruise speeds, but retain the character and bullet-proof nature of the truck 4-speed. I have the same setup in my 1942 WD-21.

One of the main problems is keeping your wheel set, very important for a dual rear tire setup. The other issue is that I use my 1 ton for what it was meant for.

I've investigated just about every option at this point.

I'm thinking of going with a Gear Vendors solution. They have an overdrive that will permit us to retain the original transmission, brake, and rear end.

Has anyone any experience with the Gear Vendors products in this type (vintage medium-large truck) vehicle?

[MBF]

I don't personally have any experience, but I did talk to an owner at the Syracuse ATHS show about 10 yrs ago.  He had a really nice setup, and I don't know what the final gear ratio was with the o/d, but I do remember him saying that on any kind of an extended incline that he had to drop it to direct because it couldn't hold it's own on a hill in o/d.  I'm thinking back now but I imagine he'd also have to had relocated the original gas tank to make room for the unit wouldn't he?