Drivetrain Specialist Please Help!!

[52dodge]

I put a new clutch and pressure plate in my d-42 about 3 months and 1200 miles ago.Heres my problem thats existed since i completed the job.The transmission grinds when trying to go into 1st or reverse.If i put the transmission in 2nd or 3rd it goes in no problem because those gears are synchronized.If i put it in 2nd then quickly go into either 1st or reverse it goes in no problem.The problem seems to be that the input shaft on the transmission is spinning even though the clutch is pushed in.I have one inch of freeplay in the clutch pedel and have played with adjusting it from one end of the adjustment to the other with no change.Something is physically keeping the input shaft spining even thought the clutch is disengaged.If i grind it bad it will slow to a stop and it will go into gear but if you take it back outta gear it will start spinning again.Every other aspect of the clutch works great,it dont slip and once you get it into first it shifts smooth through 2nd and 3rd.What could possibly be causing the input shaft to continue spinning even though the clutch is disengaged?I thought that maybe the aftermarket gasket that goes between the tranny and bellhousing is thinner than factory causing the input shaft to bottom out in the pilot bushing?? I tightened the transmission bolts evenly when installing the transmission.Im outta ideas!

[55 Fargo]

when the engine is turned off, and you are on level ground, can you easily shift into 1st and reverse, or does it hang up too?

 On my 55 faro pickup, with 4spd trans, sometimes I can't shift into to 1st or reverse, until I have the clucth pedal presse and wait a bit until trans stops spinning. 

If your input shaft is spinning while clutch pedal is fully pressed, then something is still causing a partial engagement. 

[plyroadking]

I had the same problem a few years ago, it was a combination of slack in the 1st/reverse shifting mechanism, a worn out clutch fork to pivot pin retaining spring clip, and a pressure plate that would lose adjustment. Id pull the dust cover and see how the pressure plate fingers mate up to the throw out bearing.

I also had the same problem when most of my bell housing to engine bolts backed out and abandoned ship, it hinged the housing and engine till the clutch was pinched.

Now that im thinking about it i also ran into this situation when i had a clutch disk relined and they didn't rivet it together tight enough and it was too fat to disengage completely.

[P15-D24]

Old trick to stop the gears from spinning when shifting to first or reverse. Quickly visit second, then right back to first or reverse. Going into second stops then so you can shift grind free. 

[Don Coatney]

Did you replace the pilot bushing when you re-newed the clutch assembly? Did you lubricate the pilot bushing during assembly? If you did lubricate it what did you use? Were there any burrs or rough spots on the transmission input shaft where it slips into the pilot bushing? What oil do you have in the transmission?

[Robert Horne]

 

I had the same problem a few years ago, it was a combination of slack in the 1st/reverse shifting mechanism, a worn out clutch fork to pivot pin retaining spring clip, and a pressure plate that would lose adjustment. Id pull the dust cover and see how the pressure plate fingers mate up to the throw out bearing.

I also had the same problem when most of my bell housing to engine bolts backed out and abandoned ship, it hinged the housing and engine till the clutch was pinched.

Now that im thinking about it i also ran into this situation when i had a clutch disk relined and they didn't rivet it together tight enough and it was too fat to disengage completely.

 

When I was working on my 5 speed install, I noticed that of the several clutch disk I had, many

where of different thickness, like you said, "too fat".....

[greg g]

Do you have the proper free play at the top of your clutch pedal's stroke?  The symptom usually occurs when the clutch is not completely disengaged and allows the input shaft to turn while in neutral.  If the grinding goes away after shifting into second, this occurs because the second gear synchro briefly stops the input shaft from turning. This allows the grind free shift into low gear.  So if you lengthen the linkage between the throwout fork and the pedal lever, this will give the disc a bit more relief and keep it from dragging and spinning the input shaft.

Edited June 24, 2013 by greg g

[52dodge]

thanks for the responses guys....i didn't replace the pilot bushing because i have a fluid drive converter and was informed that a special tool was required, i inspected it and it looked fine.The input shaft was smooth with no burs or anything. I didn't lube the end of the shaft with anything because i read if you do it could cause knawling of the pilot bushing.If i do put it in second the syncros do stop everything from spinning .......but i have to quickly shift to reverse or first for it to go in grind free.If i pause the gears start spinning and it will grind.Originally i was using 10w oil in the tranny.I thought maybe this was too thin causing my problem so i changed it out for 80-90w gear oil but it didn't help any.I have 1 inch of free play in the pedal and have tried adjusting it from one no freeplay to alot of freeplay to get a longer stroke thinking the clutch wasn't disengaging all the way but none of this helps.I have even pushed the clutch in and waited a full 2 minutes for everything to stop spinning but this also had no effect. It seems to be just a slight drag because i can grind it to a stop and it will go in.With the car not running it goes easily into any gear

Edited June 24, 2013 by 52dodge

[Dave72dt]

One thing I've seen done in the past, but may not be possible in your case, is the friction disc installed backwards.  If that happens the center of the disc may be contacting the flywheel and/or flywheel bolts or the flywheel bolts are too long with it installed correctly.  I've also seen the disc warped and hang up on splines, especially if the trans is PULLED into final position by the bolts.

[suntennis]

The problem is that the clutch is still engaged when the clutch pedal is depressed. You might try having someone depress the clutch (engine off) and from under the car look at the linkage and throwout bearing fork and check for bending and flexing. If the fork for the throwout bearing is bending as the clutch is depressed, it would not allow the clutch to release.

[greg g]

The linkage needs to push the throwout fork further when the clutch pedal is down.  Make it longer.  (I said shorter in my previous post but that was wrong)

[52dodge]

i have tried adjusting it all the way to the very last thread on the rod,didn't change anything. Its something besides the clutch not disengaging thats keeping the input spinning slightly

[Dodgeb4ya]

"I didn't lube the end of the shaft with anything because i read if you do it could cause knawling of the pilot bushing"

The above is not true. If you use the wrong lube-like grease, yes it will seal up the Oilite bushings in the Fluid Drive coupling-it is NOT a converter and will cause the input shaft to drag. You use a light weight oil (10W will do) and just a very small amount of it to lube the input shaft before installing the transmission.

The advice mentioned above is right on.

Bob

[52dodge]

wouldn't you think that if a little oil was put on the end of the input shaft 60+ years ago from the factory it woulda dried up or wore away by now and i woulda had the same situation before i did the clutch job?

[Dodgeb4ya]

The Oilite bushings are porous and can hold oil lubrication for a long time. 30W is what they were originally lubed with.  I have had to replace a couple of these bushings before because of  squealing noise from the transmission area.The old ones were torn up because of galling and probably lubed previously with the wrong lubricant like grease. Normally because they usually are always ok I just lightly re-oil  them and the shaft. That has always worked for me. I do carefully check the bushings for proper fit with a used FD input shaft before re-using these 2 oilite bushings.

I am not saying this is your problem though. Didn't we all talk about this same issue on your Dodge before?

[oldodge41]

My experience with a couple of these is if the engine idle rpm is high it tends to make the first/reverse shift harder to accomplish grind free. 

[52dodge]

back when i first finished the job the topic came up and most seemed to think either the pedal was outta adjustment or the rebuilt tranny had to break in but after 1200 miles and playing with the clutch adjustment the problem is elsewhere, pulling the tranny out is pretty easy so ill try that first and oil up the bushings and shaft with oil