Plymouthy Adams Posted June 12, 2013 Report Posted June 12, 2013 (edited) NLA Edited June 18, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted June 12, 2013 Author Report Posted June 12, 2013 Ok the lines are 1/4" but I have been driving this car for years with those lines and never ever had a problem with the brakes! I did have a shoe problem at one time but that was because I had a washer on the wrong side. Now after installing new brake shoes this problem creaps up! Could it be that the shoes have something to do with this problem. I spent over 200 dollars a few years ago to have the brake tubbing done and now its up in the air for what to do? Can anyone tell me why I did not have this problem befor I installed the new shoes and springs!!! If I haft to change out those lines but I just want to know what happened? Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted June 12, 2013 Author Report Posted June 12, 2013 Could of the new spring compressed the wheel brake cyclinder just enough to cause this? I know these new spring were a bitch to install and alot stronger than the original ones. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 13, 2013 Report Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) NLA Edited June 18, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted June 13, 2013 Author Report Posted June 13, 2013 Ok back to the bleeding the brakes???? Tim I noticed that after I bleed the brakes this afternoon and the car sat for a few minutes then the brake pedal was flat on the floor and one quick push and the pedal was back up but still spongy. I know I sound like and idiot but if I go out now and test the brakes which I will in a few seconds I will get back with you and let you know where the brake pedal is now. I'm going to take the car over to a garage and have someone professionally do the bleed the brakes and see if they can get it right because at the present time I'm just about worn out. I have used a clear Polly hose and a pressure can (home built) and have done just about everything possible to make sure that I'm proceeding through this evolution. Stand by! Went out to the car and its still soft but when I push the pedal down about the proper specs in the old repair manual I can feel the brakes working. For sure I'm going over to a shop tomorrow and get one of the old timers to bleed the brakes and see what happens. Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted June 13, 2013 Author Report Posted June 13, 2013 The reason is because I never had the opportunity to have the major adjustment done with the right equipment and a friend of mine bought one and told me he would help me. So my brakes were not dialed in accordinly to the manufatures manual. Now they are! But now its this soft pedal issue. Probably is air in the system and just need to get some else involved with it and pay to have it done. Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted June 13, 2013 Author Report Posted June 13, 2013 If it comes back and they cannot get the M/C to work correctly than I will venture further into the world of pipe removal and installation. Quote
48Dodger Posted June 13, 2013 Report Posted June 13, 2013 I thought you said the M/c was fine, cuz the front brakes worked when isolated. I'm guessing what you meant to say is, If "they" can't get the pedal and brakes to firm up, you'll go another route. Which you are sure must be the brake lines...... I would suggest having a qualified shop test your brake system and let them tell you what is wrong. You have done plenty and need to trust you are done. If you continue, you may have brakes that fail and hurt someone other than yourself. Gotta keep this car stuff fun...its Ok to write a check sometimes. 48D Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted June 13, 2013 Author Report Posted June 13, 2013 You are so right about the brakes!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm a worrier when it comes to safety and this morning I'm going to make an appointment at a friends garage and let them check it out. I have a very rare old car and do not want to get it screwed up because of being cheap. But while were on this subject can some please check out there brake lines and see if there 3/16"??? I trust everyone but when I go over to the brake shop I want to rest assured that my old mopar did have that size brake lines to begin with. Plymouth, Dodge or Desoto will do!!!Thanks PS. I want to stop here and thank Adams for all his help oft line as if it weren't for his observation I could be still running around in circles. Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted June 13, 2013 Author Report Posted June 13, 2013 Adams pointed out one thing to me while oft line he stated that I probably never had good brakes to begin with but did not know the difference. And I really think what he stated was the truth. I always drive my car carefully and never have had to make a quick stop. But I do know that I could never get the tires to skid but on sand or gravel. But I never had to pump them up either to come to a stop. Now why did this all come to the light of day about wrong size brake lines well all I can attest it to is that when I took oft the hubs and did my first brake inspection the brake cylinders were a little corroded and maybe they were not getting enough oil pressure to make them work correctly. Also maybe it has something to do with new springs and shoes making the it a tighter system and finally having a friend do the major adjustment of which was never done in the first place. That tool really does works as when I took oft the brake drums to see how the contact wear was doing after the adjustment and they were perfect. So thanks again Adams for pointing out something most people would never think about and talk to you latter. Quote
seabee1950 Posted June 13, 2013 Report Posted June 13, 2013 J there are a lot of ways to do things but if you are bleeding them and your not getting any air out when you bleed them then there is no reason they should not be good. If by chance you are getting air then its time to regroup and look at each part of the system because there is no way to induce Air into the brake lines on a closed system unless there is a leak. On your M/C is there a divider block most two line systems (Are you using a booster) that I have worked on have them it allows you to lose one side and still have brakes, I know your not stupid and all I am saying if no air comes out of the front or the rear when bleed the system is sealed but if air bubbles are still showing you then you are sucking air, that's the only thing this old CB knows to tell you. Good Luck and stay on the chat for what needs you have because there is more then enough knowledge on the Chat then you can ever use, combined Knowledge and hear what they are saying as we all get frustrated at times and if I had done this bleeding on my brakes this many times I would of thrown the can at them. Have a great day sit back with a cold Ice Tea and give it some more though. Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted June 13, 2013 Author Report Posted June 13, 2013 Well this will be interesting and I'm just doing it for test Tim has stated that my lines are to big and I kind of agree. So I think I will go to the rear of the car and take one line oft and plug the outlet side of the y block for one side. And if Tim is right than I should be able bleed my brakes and not have a squashing break pedal because not having that brake cylinder should reduce the amount of fluid needed to operate the brakes. Now I'm just do this to see what happens and will put the back brake back on when finished. Interesting is that I went down to the shop that install what I had remembered all the brake lines but he didn't. Don stated that they only replaced two lines and left the rest alone. So I came home an sure enough the back brake line had never been touch and it looks to be like the original brake line that came with the car. Interesting as I don't think the farmer who owned my old Dodge would have replaced those old line for what? Anyway one question if the hubs have been turned down to a point where the shoes would haft to travel father out than specs could this cause the lack of brake fluid? But the rims are with intolerances that are called out for before they need to be replaced. Oh well time for the dog and pony show outside. Quote
Don Coatney Posted June 13, 2013 Report Posted June 13, 2013 When are you going to quit screwing around and fix the problem? Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 13, 2013 Report Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) NLA Edited June 18, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams Quote
DJ194950 Posted June 13, 2013 Report Posted June 13, 2013 Can one of the very knowledgeable forum posters still find the Miller brake adjustment instructions that where posted before?? Memory if working today, the instructions started with the the drum measurement per each drum( as they are seldom they same) and the setting tool to check brake shoe adjustment. Best to ya, Doug Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted June 13, 2013 Author Report Posted June 13, 2013 Don my friend with the other 42 Dodge and who owns the tool is very knowledgeable with the ust of this tool. He did his own brakes and got a learning curve on how to use that tool for proper dimensions requirements. We are dealing in thousands on these old brakes and he got them with into .012". So as far a the shoes fitting the drums they are about as perfect as can be. As far as the wear on the drums they also have been checked and there with intolerances. Quote
Don Coatney Posted June 13, 2013 Report Posted June 13, 2013 Don my friend with the other 42 Dodge and who owns the tool is very knowledgeable with the ust of this tool. He did his own brakes and got a learning curve on how to use that tool for proper dimensions requirements. We are dealing in thousands on these old brakes and he got them with into .012". So as far a the shoes fitting the drums they are about as perfect as can be. As far as the wear on the drums they also have been checked and there with intolerances. Did he measure the drums on each wheel and adjust the shoes to fit the drums? Or do you not know what he did? Quote
_shel_ny Posted June 14, 2013 Report Posted June 14, 2013 Can one of the very knowledgeable forum posters still find the Miller brake adjustment instructions that where posted before?? Memory if working today, the instructions started with the the drum measurement per each drum( as they are seldom they same) and the setting tool to check brake shoe adjustment. Best to ya, Doug http://mopar.pairserver.com/p15d24ph_forum/topic/16762-how-to-guide-miller-brake-tool/ Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted June 14, 2013 Author Report Posted June 14, 2013 Don we worked hand in hand and yes he knows what he is doing! He is very methodical and carefull to follow instructions, plus he is a nice guy! Anyway I'm going to go ahead and change out the brake tubes and then hope that fixes the problem. Quote
OldDad67 Posted June 14, 2013 Report Posted June 14, 2013 Have you checked the rubber brake hose at the rear lines? Is it new or old and could be expanding under pressure? Old rubber lines both front and rear can do that giving you a spongy pedal. Just a thought. Don we worked hand in hand and yes he knows what he is doing! He is very methodical and carefull to follow instructions, plus he is a nice guy! Anyway I'm going to go ahead and change out the brake tubes and then hope that fixes the problem. Quote
JIPJOBXX Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Posted June 15, 2013 Very interesting Went over to my friends house that has about the best looking 42 Dodge you could ever see. Its perfectly restored and of course I checked his brake lines and guess what???????????????? 1/4" Brake lines just line mine! This is an original car and he bought it out of a musium. So Adams idea of the wrong size lines could be oft base and there is something else causing this brake problem. It could be air still trapped in the system or just plain something that I cannot figure out. Here is a picture of Don's car and its a show stopper. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted June 15, 2013 Report Posted June 15, 2013 On All the 1941-42 MoPars I have worked on, the brakes had 1/4" brake lines. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 15, 2013 Report Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) NLA Edited June 18, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted June 15, 2013 Report Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) I take it all back Tim! maybe I'm stuck on the P8 convert I did the brakes on a couple years ago. I'm just getting older and my mind is going away! Update 7/29/2013.... I cannot take it back! I was working on a DeSoto 1942 model S10 and measured the rear brake tube line. It is a 1/4" tube as I remembered correctly. My mind is still good, thank the lord! 1/4" brake tube is factory up through 1942. Bob Edited July 30, 2013 by Dodgeb4ya Quote
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