Driving our old cars at high speeds

[55 Fargo]

When it comes to any upgrade it is whatever floats your boat. I went to the slant 6 electonic for the much hotter spark, no radio interference. and no points to wear out. But that is me. The car manufacuers went this way for a reason..I can cruise all day long at highway speeds and the engine does not skip a beat. ( did before ). My spare parts kit consists of only a fan belt. The car is set up very much like Dons except for engine size and rear ratio, and will go where ever she is pointed. Hot August Nights in Reno this summer (2013) 

I take it you have a 218 canadian built long block, I have this very engine(1951 D40 218) in my 47 Chrysler, 251 was pulled out years before I go the car. Is your engine rebuilt, or a more mature variety? I like the idea of the /6, diz and electronic ignition in a flathead 6.

[Don Jordan]

I guess I must be the only one but I just leave a little early and stay at 55. The engine sounds comfortable and I'm more relaxed. If I do 55 in my pickup people pass me and wave a middle finger. When I do 55 in the Plymouth people drive by and wave a thumbs up.

I go every year from LA to Sacramento for the State Fair. Then go down to the Bay Area. It's about 1,000 miles. It takes just a little longer but I get to enjoy the scenery. I can go 70 down hill in neutral - letting the engine cool.

How do you tell what gears you have in the rear end? Are they marked somewhere?

[Plymouthy Adams]

often stamped on the hoghead just near the oil fill hole and I have alway found it at the top of the hoghead on the flat boss..mirror and wire bursh to clean and see may be needed here..your gear will be 3.9 unless sold for desiginated hilly area and was delivered to that specific dealer with a 4.1

[RobertKB]

I guess I must be the only one but I just leave a little early and stay at 55. The engine sounds comfortable and I'm more relaxed.

 

No, you are not the only one. That is the speed I cruise with all my flatties and for the same reasons.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the 55-60 top speed most will run at for max is enough alone me to say, out with the old and in with the new..however, my 54 stock will hit approx 53 in low gear jut by putting the pedal to the metal..at 75 she is humming comfortably but with lots of room to spare..85 begins to sound busy..interstate is 70-75 with no problem..again..I do not use this car as a daily but I don't baby it like a fragile unboiled egg or as if the seat was nitroglycerine..ready to blow with the slightest bump..myother builds..yeah newer stuff because I do not intend to sit back and let the world pass me by in the far right lane..as for another note...let meadd formy allstock 49 Plymouth..yeah i would not ever have driven it like the54..apples and opranges..like you I thinkit sounded abit busy at 60..wdhy it isnolonger here..to good to cut...to old for my style driving..so for those with that setup..I will give you the 55-60 and say itis not wrong to do so..actually..I will agree it may be the best thing to do

Edited February 2, 2013 by Tim Adams

[TodFitch]

. . . I go every year from LA to Sacramento for the State Fair. Then go down to the Bay Area. It's about 1,000 miles. . .

 

I-5 or Hwy 99?

 

I personally am not comfortable with the thought of driving 55 on I-5 through the Central Valley. Too many drivers asleep at the wheel doing 80 that might tail end you. I'll do and have done US-101. No problem. Might even do Hwy 99 but it has lots of traffic and I don't even like it in a modern car. And I've done I-5 from Portland, Oregon back down and through the Sacramento Valley in the '33. But not that section of I-5 from Stockton to the Grapevine.

 

For the drive to Tucson, I'll be using Hwy 25 and Hwy 198 to Coalinga then Hwy 33 south through the San Joaquin Valley. Two lane the whole way with light traffic.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Todd...knowing wehre you are at and the conditions around you says it all for safe driving....I went to all British car show long back..up I-85 to get there out of Atlanta...the MGTC and era cars were wide open at 45 with grades slowing them to 40 and folks running up behind them at 75+ made for a few hairy looking sceanarios..they in my opinion should not have been on that road..sure its free public with minimum of 40 MPH..but at what risk? not only to themselves, thier collector car but to the general public at large..one would have thought as they traveled in groups of three it seemed..there would have been a chase car with warning light..these cars did not have flasher and stock showing for points..well you know that story also about mods..

[55 Fargo]

Tim, what diff gearing do you have in the 54, doing 70 mph, with a 3.54 dif should be no problem, it's the 3.9-4.30 that things get busy. That car is a whole heap lighter than say my 47 Chrysler, I know those drive the 46-48 Chryslers with 3.54 diffs, at 70 mph all day, no problems, the 8s would be even more so.

In my 47s case, it gets a bit scary at speeds over 60 mph, for braking reasons, and I have the little tired 218, not sure what she can handle. Up here I can get away with 55 mph, in most instances.

the 55-60 top speed most will run at for max is enough alone me to say, out with the old and in with the new..however, my 54 stock will hit approx 53 in low gear jut by putting the pedal to the metal..at 75 she is humming comfortably but with lots of room to spare..85 begins to sound busy..interstate is 70-75 with no problem..again..I do not use this car as a daily but I don't baby it like a fragile unboiled egg or as if the seat was nitroglycerine..ready to blow with the slightest bump..myother builds..yeah newer stuff because I do not intend to sit back and let the world pass me by in the far right lane..as for another note...let meadd formy allstock 49 Plymouth..yeah i would not ever have driven it like the54..apples and opranges..like you I thinkit sounded abit busy at 60..wdhy it isnolonger here..to good to cut...to old for my style driving..so for those with that setup..I will give you the 55-60 and say itis not wrong to do so..actually..I will agree it may be the best thing to do

 

Yes that would make for a scary scenario

Todd...knowing wehre you are at and the conditions around you says it all for safe driving....I went to all British car show long back..up I-85 to get there out of Atlanta...the MGTC and era cars were wide open at 45 with grades slowing them to 40 and folks running up behind them at 75+ made for a few hairy looking sceanarios..they in my opinion should not have been on that road..sure its free public with minimum of 40 MPH..but at what risk? not only to themselves, thier collector car but to the general public at large..one would have thought as they traveled in groups of three it seemed..there would have been a chase car with warning light..these cars did not have flasher and stock showing for points..well you know that story also about mods..

[Plymouthy Adams]

stock is the key word here..54 with automatic had a 3.73 stock...if I had the 3.54 it would be even better specs in my post...as every .2 higher ratio you have you gain approx 8 MPH at same RPM...I did say low gear and not first gear..there is only low and high in the 54 atuomatic..

 

as I continued on quoting the performance of my 49 as stock (218 with 3.9 and that column shifter, uck) yes..just too busy..exact reason it went away...It was very nice car inside and out...too nice of an example to cut and do engine upgrade..if I held it here its fate would have been sealed to just that...there are too many other cars that have been altered or drivetrains lost in the past that are suitable for the upgrades I do..my coupe for example came with no flattie stuff at all, 3.9 rear gear and brand x components bought by the PO for the upgrade...I got it prior to the upgrades done or any body work for that matter..sold off the brand x stuff and went with Ma Mopar...I have tons of chassis components NIB for this car that I will hold for the two ohter P15s here at the house..win win all around..

Edited February 2, 2013 by Tim Adams

[T120]

   Basically the old  cars I own are stock - they're reasonably well maintained and I know their limitations.I generally limit the speed I drive my Dodge on the highway to 55-60 mph.
   I'll pick a less travelled route if I think traffic will pose a problem.
   Personally,I would avoid travelling on a major highway after dark at 55-60 mph with the old car.
   I usually pack along a few tools and If I'm travelling any distance I may add to that.I'm fortunate in that I'm retired and no longer have deadlines and commitments - should a breakdown occur that I couldn't repair on the spot, I'd find a suitable place to park the car,find a ride home and pick the car up later with my trailer.Hasn't happened yet..
  For me it's a pleasure to just enjoy the hobby,and that includes driving the old cars and not worrying about what might happen.
  (I do have a newer 1986 car I enjoy driving a little faster when I feel the need for speed.)

Edited February 2, 2013 by Ralph D25cpe

[55 Fargo]

stock is the key word here..54 with automatic had a 3.73 stock...if I had the 3.54 it would be even better specs in my post...as every .2 higher ratio you have you gain approx 8 MPH at same RPM...I did say low gear and not first gear..there is only low and high in the 54 atuomatic..

 

as I continued on quoting the performance of my 49 as stock (218 with 3.9 and that column shifter, uck) yes..just too busy..exact reason it went away...It was very nice car inside and out...too nice of an example to cut and do engine upgrade..if I held it here its fate would have been sealed to just that...there are too many other cars that have been altered or drivetrains lost in the past that are suitable for the upgrades I do..my coupe for example came with no flattie stuff at all, 3.9 rear gear and brand x components bought by the PO for the upgrade...I got it prior to the upgrades done or any body work for that matter..sold off the brand x stuff and went with Ma Mopar...I have tons of chassis components NIB for this car that I will hold for the two ohter P15s here at the house..win win all around..

Hey Tim, I have a 3.73 rearend in the 47 Chrysler, and do not feel comfortable at 70 mph, she just floats along at 60, no problem. This could be for a few reasons, front end is decent but could be better, the car is much heavier that your 54, so greater amounty of thrust is perhaps required to push it along.

Now the truck, heck she has 3.23 gears in the back, and even with the 4 spd, no problem getting to 60 mph, and probably a whole lot faster, but with this solid axle truck front end, and in need of outer tie rod ends not happening for me.

At 45 mph, with the 3.23 gears she is barely hummin.

1 car with 3.73, and another with 3.90, was there that much difference, albeit 1 is AT and the other 3 on the tree, wouldn't think the 3.90s would hummin all that much more than the 3.73s.......

 

70 mph

27.5 inch aspect tire size

3.23 gears=2762 RPMs

3.54 gears=3027

3.73 gears=3190

3.90 gears=3335

4.10 gears=3506

specs just for fun tire size is based ona P215 75 15

Edited February 2, 2013 by C38Spitfire6

[Plymouthy Adams]

a lot of the difference may well be attributed to the fact that the 54 also has better sound deadening qualities, firewall, floor including jute and carpet and add to that a shorter wheelbase that most swear make driving and handling improvements..the exhaust on the 54 is a bit quieter also..another difference is the bias ply tires on the 54 verse the radials on the 49..lots of small things that combine for a louder, busy sounding car...also the 54 has new vent and door seals and totally rebuild glass fuzzies and such...again..adding to a quieter running experience..and as far as that transmission...a stock 3 speed is a tad noisy also..

[hkestes41]

My electronic ignition is all from an S-10 so if something fails NAPA, Auto Zone etc will have the parts in stock no problem.

[Plymouthy Adams]

adapting a later model ignition is a plus..number of manners to get there per individual choice...this entirely different distributor popped into place will allow for a quick pop in and out and allow you to carry your stock as a 'limp in" spare in the trunk should you have a failure when out and about and maybe after hours of the big box stores..

[Tom Skinner]

Chuck,

Back to your point of speeds on the highway. Well, without changing transmissions, rear ends etc., I would suggest google maps or map quest using the back roads. I typically can find there are several options (direction wise) to car shows here in North Carolina. One needn't go down a superhighway at 70 mph, when other older roads lead to the same destination. Besides I usually find an old mill with corn bread mix in a cloth sack or a covered bridge or an old winery along the way. Superhighways, Big Box Stores, etc are for your usual idiots eating fast food while driving 75-85 mph, racing to their own deaths one way or another. Find an alternate route, slow down and live, it is possible you know. Oh and by the way turn off your cell phone, and stop and get a cup of coffee and a slice of home made apple pie along the way. Nobody needs to race through life unless they choose to do so.

Tom 

Huntersville, North Carolina

[55 Fargo]

Chuck,

Back to your point of speeds on the highway. Well, without changing transmissions, rear ends etc., I would suggest google maps or map quest using the back roads. I typically can find there are several options (direction wise) to car shows here in North Carolina. One needn't go down a superhighway at 70 mph, when other older roads lead to the same destination. Besides I usually find an old mill with corn bread mix in a cloth sack or a covered bridge or an old winery along the way. Superhighways, Big Box Stores, etc are for your usual idiots eating fast food while driving 75-85 mph, racing to their own deaths one way or another. Find an alternate route, slow down and live, it is possible you know. Oh and by the way turn off your cell phone, and stop and get a cup of coffee and a slice of home made apple pie along the way. Nobody needs to race through life unless they choose to do so.

Tom 

Huntersville, North Carolina

Wow, Tom that's pretty intense......but love it....

[RobertKB]

Besides I usually find an old mill with corn bread mix in a cloth sack or a covered bridge or an old winery along the way. Superhighways, Big Box Stores, etc are for your usual idiots eating fast food while driving 75-85 mph, racing to their own deaths one way or another. Find an alternate route, slow down and live, it is possible you know. Oh and by the way turn off your cell phone, and stop and get a cup of coffee and a slice of home made apple pie along the way. Nobody needs to race through life unless they choose to do so.

Tom 

Huntersville, North Carolina

 

Great thoughts and a wonderful way to enjoy our old cars. After all, they are old cars. If I want mod-cons, I drive my newer vehicle.

Edited February 4, 2013 by RobertKB

[1941Rick]

I take it you have a 218 canadian built long block, I have this very engine(1951 D40 218) in my 47 Chrysler, 251 was pulled out years before I go the car. Is your engine rebuilt, or a more mature variety? I like the idea of the /6, diz and electronic ignition in a flathead 6.

The engine is the 23" american engine. Everything has been rebuilt hence very dependable......

[1941Rick]

No, you are not the only one. That is the speed I cruise with all my flatties and for the same reasons.

3:91 in O/D at 55mph is sweet music to the ears...........

[4852dodge]

Not too many years ago I had a 54 DeSoto with a flathead and Powerflite.  The car loved to roll along at 60-65.  It seemed to be her happy zone.  All stock. 

Edited February 6, 2013 by 4852dodge

[55 Fargo]

Not too many years ago I had a DeSoto with a flathead and Powerflite.  The car loved to roll along at 60-65.  It seemed to be her happy zone.  All stock. 

What year of Desoto, with a 3.54 diff, and 265 engine could cruise all day long at 65 mph.

By the late 50s and early 60s, 6 cylinder engines, with automatic trans and higher geared rearends, you could drive much faster at lower rpms, big heavy cars too. I had a 60 Chevy car, 2 spd powerglide, 235 6, cruise all day at 60-70 mph, same thing with other similar cars.

I plan to continue to drive my 47 Chrysler with 3.73 diff, at 55mph, it seems most comfortable at that speed, and I can get away with it hee on the smaller highways. The only thing up here is this, a lot of these smaller 2 lane highways, are the only roads to a few beachtown locations near Winnipeg, and other bedroom communities, and they have bumper to bumper traffic on weekends, so a bit of a pain....

[Uncle-Pekka]

often stamped on the hoghead just near the oil fill hole and I have alway found it at the top of the hoghead on the flat boss..mirror and wire bursh to clean and see may be needed here..your gear will be 3.9 unless sold for desiginated hilly area and was delivered to that specific dealer with a 4.1

Tim,

I recall I read somewhere that the business coupes were delivered with 3.73 rear ends, 7-passenger limos with 4.1 and the rest 3.9, as you told. Of course any body could have been ordered as per customer request.

 

I am not fortunate, thus found stamping 4.1 on my car's hoghead... How rare are 3.73's to find? I really want to have that set for mine... Offers and suggestions welcome.

 

Cheers,

Pekka

Edited February 4, 2013 by Uncle-Pekka

[Plymouthy Adams]

Pekka...per the book the Concord class (111 wheelbase) , and the 53-54 114 wheelbase cars got the 3.73 for normal terrain and optional 4.1 for hilly country.  The car if factory equipped with OD got the 4.1 and all the hy-drive units were 3.73.  I do not have any tech data on the big sisters here to look at and comment on with any assurance.

 

Only the big sisters got the 3.54 ratio.  The 3.73, I had one given to me long ago but could never arrange to go get the unit from the car within the short window avaialble to me for stripping the unit..shame as the car only had 50K original miles..smacked in the side a bit hard..anyway, they are not that hard to come across..I would give you a 3.9 from a 50 Dodge but shipping would kill ya.. 

[RobertKB]

I have a 3.73 but as Tim said, shipping would be expensive. I believe they were available from '53 onward and have a different spline count on the axles so some exchange of parts is also necessary if it is going in an older model car.

[55 Fargo]

I have a 3.73 but as Tim said, shipping would be expensive. I believe they were available from '53 onward and have a different spline count on the axles so some exchange of parts is also necessary if it is going in an older model car.

Yes shipping would be pricey,but maybe not a huge amount of choice, the side gears can be swapped if 1 unit has the newer 16 spline and the older has 10 spline. The newer came out in 1954, according to info,but who knows.

A lot of the europe guys ship entire cars and bigger parts, so if needed not much choice...