celticsam Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 I have a 48 P15 (Special Deluxe) that was bought with the engine and transmission removed and damaged beyond repair by the previous owner and his "trusty" sledge hammer. I just bought a 49 Dodge flathead (yes, its longer) and fluid drive to replace the original engine and transmission. That said, How does the engine mount into the car? The mounts look like they just sit there by the weight of the engine...that can't be right. The front (H) mount bolts to the crossmember and the engine bracket, but that bracket does not bolt to the engine (semi circle pad...with no apparent holes). The 2 wafers or pucks back at the bell housing also have no hole in them. I know that I am missing something, but I can't find any pictures or diagrams to show how this goes. Also, any diagrams showing the proper way to connect the Fluid drive's linkage would be appreciated. I've changed a few newer engines, but never anything older than around 1965... Neil Littlestown, PA Quote
Young Ed Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 Neil I think you'd be a lot better off to find a non fluid drive transmission to go with your dodge engine. The front mount should look sorta like an n. There are 2 bolt holes on each side at the bottom that bolt to the frame and a rubber mount with studs that the engine rests on. Also the two mounts at the rear should have holes in them for bolts. Quote
celticsam Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Posted October 2, 2012 Unfortunately, the car will be for my wife to drive. At 5' (and with short legs), she has a hard time with the clutch in most stick cars...she specifically asked for an automatic. The fluid drive was a comprimise, as I like the stick, personally. If I had my way, I'd either keep the 3 speed or use a T5... Quote
Young Ed Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 Ha I have a 5' tall wife too. So far she just rides with me. You'll have a little bit of work to do with the rear mounts then. They use the same style but are further back due to the fluid drive. So you'll need to move the crossmember back. The front is the same. Quote
captden29 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 cel, there are later model flatheads that have the full automatics already in place. seems to me that you should go in that direction. in 1954 chrysler came out with the powerflite automatic, hooked up to the 265 flathead. i am sure there are later models also, maybe even with a torqueflite. research and this forum will help you in your quest to make the wife happy. be glad she wants to drive it. my wife will not drive my old chrysler even though it is an automatic. she can drive stick, just afraid of the old car. capt den Quote
greg g Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 Why do you say your engine is longer? Did you get a chrysler engine? If you are not in Canada, your Dodge engine (engine number beginning with D) should be 23.5 inches long at the head. Chrysler Desoto, and Canadian built engines are 25 inches long. Now the Bellhousing on Fluid drive cars is deeper than standard Plymouth casting and may locate differently differently due to where the bellhousing bolts to the cross member. You may want to do some more measuring to verify what you have. Quote
james curl Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 As young Ed says, the engines are the same length and as Gregg pointed out the fluid drive bell housing is much longer than the standard Plymouth bell housing. I have a Dodge engine in my 48 P-15 using the Plymouth bell housing, flywheel and clutch and did not have to change anything. That said if you are going to use the fluid drive you will have to relocate the rear engine/bell housing cross member to allow for the increased length of the fluid drive bell housing. I believe that it will also require shortening the drive shaft, if that is the case then that would be a good time to go with modern u joints. If you do a search for u joints here on the forum you should be able to find all of the information including part numbers for the new u joints for the drive line shop. Quote
celticsam Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Posted October 2, 2012 But does anyone have info on the mounts themselves? I have the front plate with 2 bollts into the crossmember and 2 bolts into the plate...but the engine seems to sit in a horseshoe shaped U with nothing holding it in place but the weight of the engine...and the 2 pucks at the rear crossmember are also solid. No provision for bolt holes. I haven't blasted them yet, but, unless the crud in the holes is extremely solid (as in, I couldn't probe through it with the scraper when I started cleaning everything up), they are not present for some reason. I know it can't just sit there by gravity, but there is no place to put any bolts. Like I said, I'm missing something... Neil Quote
Young Ed Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 Not sure why your rear mounts dont have holes but the correct ones do. And the front mount has 2 sets of studs. One set goes to the engine mount and one to the engine itself. Quote
oldodge41 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 Maybe the bolts and nuts were cut off your rear mounts. If someone cut the nuts off only to find the bolts frozen in the pucks, they may have then cut the bolts and now they appear solid. Quote
Andydodge Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 Neil, the front mount is a biscuit style, about 6" long, with 2 studs pointing up/down, the rear mounts are similar to flathead Ford front mounts, circular with a top and bottom piece that have a hole in them allowing a bolt to go thru the bellhousing "ear" into the top mount, thru the gearbox mount crossmember and into the bottom round mount and a plate/nut to hold the lot together.........and yep weight and the upper/lower studs are what holds the front mount on..........and as it attached high on the block its pretty stable..........andyd Quote
40P10touring sedan Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 Hey Neil, can you sanp a pic of the bellhousing mounts?...should be holes there! Yeah, the engine front mount has the engine just sitting on the cross mount and under the plate that goes behind the timing cover via the H rubber isolator...then theres the 2 rear bellhousing mounts..."floating power" at it's best. Quote
greg g Posted October 2, 2012 Report Posted October 2, 2012 I have two "U" bolts that go through the legs and the crossmember with nuts on the bottom. Use a wire bursh in the corss member where the legs of the front mount sit. You will prpbably find some rusted in or cut off fastener remains, unless the X member was modified to accept another brand of engine. Quote
joecoozie Posted October 3, 2012 Report Posted October 3, 2012 "But does anyone have info on the mounts themselves? I have the front plate with 2 bollts into the crossmember and 2 bolts into the plate...but the engine seems to sit in a horseshoe shaped U with nothing holding it in place but the weight of the engine...and the 2 pucks at the rear crossmember are also solid. No provision for bolt holes. I haven't blasted them yet, but, unless the crud in the holes is extremely solid (as in, I couldn't probe through it with the scraper when I started cleaning everything up), they are not present for some reason. I know it can't just sit there by gravity, but there is no place to put any bolts. Like I said, I'm missing something..." The front horseshoe plate that the engine sits on is mounted to the front bulkhead/crossmember by 2 "u" shaped "bolts that are akin in shape only to muffler clamps but much heavier metal. These 2 u-bolts come up thru the front crossmember and the front "horseshoe" bracket gets bolted to these. Then the front engine mount gets bolted to the top of the horseshoe and then there is a heavy bracket on the engine, under the water pump, that bolts to the threaded studs on the top of the motor mount. The rear "pucks" sit on top of the rear crossmember and they have 2 large washers, one on the top of the puck and one on the bottom. One of these washers has an extended male piece that runs thru the mount (puck). These are all attached to the crossmember/tranny by 2 long bolts. I have all of the parts that I mentioned for mounting the engine if you are interested and/or need them. Joe Quote
49roadster Posted October 3, 2012 Report Posted October 3, 2012 It sound to me like he has the front mount upside down. But it is late and I had wine with dinner. Quote
greg g Posted October 3, 2012 Report Posted October 3, 2012 there is a laminated rubber intermediary piece that goes between the motor mount stamoing and the top of the timing cover. generally available for 20 to 25 bucks or so. Quote
49roadster Posted October 3, 2012 Report Posted October 3, 2012 I am talking about the "u" shaped bracket that the mount bolts onto. Quote
Niel Hoback Posted October 3, 2012 Report Posted October 3, 2012 Man, it don't get no clearer than that! Quote
montego8 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 What is that transmission I see? I need that! Quote
40P10touring sedan Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 Don Coatney said: Hopefully I picked out the right picture- I always wondered why one couldn't remove the H rubber, solid mount it there and use two biscuit types between the frame and the lower bracket...yeah, it's just me. Quote
Young Ed Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 40P10touring sedan said: Hopefully I picked out the right picture- I always wondered why one couldn't remove the H rubber, solid mount it there and use two biscuit types between the frame and the lower bracket...yeah, it's just me. Why would you need to? With new mounts and a properly tuned flathead these cars are very smooth. I don't see how it could be improved. Quote
Don Coatney Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 montego8 said: What is that transmission I see? I need that! T-5. Quote
greg g Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 Why would you substitute a factory designed mount and replace it with a cobbles up something when there are several sources for the correct piece, at a more than reasonable cost?? Quote
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