Help for the amateur.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well if it isn't one thing it is another. I finally got my cooling system back together and working excellent and then... Took the car for a 40+ mile drive, started off running great. Towards the middle of the drive it started back firing and surging. I made it home and thinking I knew what I was doing moved the distributor around, Now it won't start at all. Here's a link to a video I took. I am somewhat new to cars so not sure how to fix it. I put #1 cylinder to TCD, I think, made sure all wires were in correct order and still nothing. Not to mention a new cap and coil. Any help is greatly appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfndRMkZmcA&feature=plcp

[Guest P15-D24]

Gas in the carb? With the air cleaner off (engine not running) open the throttle quickly and see if you a stream of gas from the accelerator pump down the carb throat. If not, pull the four screws on the top oaf the carb and see if you fuel in the bowl.

Pull #1 plug, ground it to the block and crank the engine. Got a good spark? Go back to the main site and (Link in upper left hand corner) and check the article on static timing.

Report what you find...

[suntennis]

Unless the distributor was not secured prior to driving, then it did not move duing the drive. Return the distributor to where it was during the drive. With distributor reset, try to restart with the aid of some start fluid. What could cause your problem outside of timing would be fuel supply. Problem areas here are fuel pump, carb, gas tank and fuel line. Start with the carb first and make sure you are getting enough fuel to fill the fuel bowl.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well I've got fuel and a good spark. Going to attempt the static timing tomorrow. I'm not able to read the marks on the balancer very well where should TDC be?

[Don Coatney]

Where are you located? Where did you buy your car? Might be a forum member close by who could assist

[claybill]

surging sounds like fuel problems....backfiring sounds like electrical problem.

how about looking at plug wires..or a ground wire off.etc.. things you could have dislodged when fixing the radiator.

bill

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well, I found that the lower tightening bolt was loose allowing the dst to move. I tightened the bolt, replaced the points, and then static timed it. Still no success. It turns then pops smoke out of the carb. Not sure what do to next.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well I've static timed the car multiple times and it is still not starting. Also seems like the light tester for static timing is lighting up no matter what stroke it is on. Another thing I noticed is that the factory notches on the pulley are on the bottom side when I am supposedly at TDC. There is however a line that someone has drawn on the upward side that lines up at TDC, seems backwards. Or maybe I'm just not understanding how it works. Replaced the plugs this morning, gapped them at .035. Very frustrating as I am trying to get it running again before my first child is born in 2 weeks. Otherwise it will probably be sitting for a long while in it's current state.

[1941Rick]

Has your timing chain streched to the point it has gone out or time so far it will not start? There is a plug on # 6 cylinder beside the spark plug. Remove it and slide a steel rod into the hole and turn the engine by HAND. Once you have established TDC, check your tdc mark on the pulley. If there is no sign of the mark rotate the engine one more time and check again. You can also remove the dist cap and rock the engine back and forth while watching the rotor. There should be no lag in the rotation of the rotor. If there is, its because of a timing chain problem. Or find a mechanic to help you out.. there are so many things that could trip you up if you are not familiar with engines.

[randroid]

Rusty,

Sounds as though you've done everything by the book and still no success so perhaps it's time for the "no more Mr. Nice Guy" approach. What I would do: Pull the cap off the distributor and pull #1 spark plug. Using a short piece of wire, jump the starter to make the engine rotate and watch the direction the distributor is turning while you're doing that. Keep bumping the engine in short increments and when you hear a whoosh of air #1 cylinder is in position to fire. Set the distributor cap back in place and note which wire is closest to the rotor. The rotor should, in a perfect world, be about the 7 o'clock position and the wire closest to it should be for #1 plug, but the world isn't perfect so you might need to adjust the position of the wires on the cap to get it as close as possible. Yank all the other wires out of the cap and, remembering the direction of rotation, plug them into their respective spots in the correct order, which is 1 5 3 6 2 4 (the firing order is molded into the head), then static time it once again. This will get you close enough so it will run and then, with minor tweaking of the distributor, the problem should be solved, or at least you'll know you've removed a number of variables from the equation. The timing mark should not be at the bottom when #1 fires, which is why I suggest you use the method I mentioned.

Congratulations on your first child! If you can arrange to have it born in the back seat you'll guarantee your legacy of love for old cars will be perpetuated but if the little missus isn't too hot on that idea at least send a picture with it somewhere near the car.

Hope this is of some help and I wish I still lived in Portland to give you some hands-on help. I sometimes miss that salted red beer so popular in Vancouver.

-Randy

[Rusty Shackleford]

Thanks for the tip randy. I'll give it a try tomorrow. As for your proposed birth plan I will run it past the wife and let you know. Maybe if the love of old cars is hereditary my soon to be daughter will focus on them and stay away from the boys.

[Niel Hoback]

Good plan, but it has never worked yet. Girl+boy is more fun than girl+car.

[aero3113]

Are you sure you didn't move your distributor 180? If you did all you will get are some pops. You want the rotor at the 7 o'clock position when the #1 cylinder is at top dead center.

[Niel Hoback]

You must make certain that number one is at TDC on the compression stroke, not exhaust.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Another day down with out success. I did notice that the 4-6 plugs were wet with fuel but 1 and 2 were dry and looking like they have never fired ( extremely clean). Not sure if that has anything to do with it. I'm sure I will tinker some more tomorrow.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well after 40+ hours of trying to get it running again I decided that I will take it to a mechanic. Dropped it off this morning, called them for an update before closing and they got it running. Running poorly that is. Supposedly I have 2 dead cylinders, number 3 and 4, and he thinks one of the valves is bad due to the popping out the carb. This is odd to me because it was running fine until I messed with the distributor. Also would it be able to go 60 on the freeway with 2 dead cylinders? Not sure if I should get another opinion or think about a rebuild.

[Young Ed]

Get another opinion! And I'd be certainly checking the head gasket before leaping all the way to rebuilding.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Would a bad head gasket cause zero compression on these supposed dead cylinders? And how do I know if it is bad? I had no leaks any other ways to determine a bad gasket prior to removing the head?

[Young Ed]

These engines have a tendency to split between the paired cylinders. So when #3 is supposed to be building compression instead it escapes into #4 etc. Visual inspection will tell if its bad beyond the first sign which is no compression on a pair of cylinders. I don't know any other way to tell.

[greg g]

Since it is very rare for the head gasket to fail other than between pairs of cyliders, there is nover any coolant in the oil or the tell tail clouds of white smoke common when other cars blow gaskets. It can hapen in an eye blink, driving or idling. So how it ran yeaterday or 5 minuted befor has no bearing on the situation when it fails.

Its an inexpensive and fairly quick fix. Should't take a competent techician more than an hour and a half or so.One thing that needs to be checked is the trueness of the mating urfaces between the head and block. If this is out of spec, machining of the head is required, but this is also fairly inexpensive.

[TodFitch]

...Also would it be able to go 60 on the freeway with 2 dead cylinders?

Concur with others about the possibility of a head gasket being blown and that the fix is pretty simple.

Regarding going 60 with two dead cylinders: When I got my '33 the seller said it ran good but had a rough idle. When I finally got around to checking compression a couple of thousand miles later, many at the then maximum legal speed of 55, I found I had three cylinders with zero compression and three with 40 to 60 pounds compression. Burned valves on the three and worn rings on all. Other than rough idle and being hard to start it ran just fine. These engines are tough beasts and can soldier on with major defects.

[Death Dodger]

If I run detergent oil in mine, when the engine's cold it's almost impossible to start. The valves will hang and it will pop. Non-detergent oil doesn't seem to present the problem.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well I just did a compression test to see where I am at. #1 = 25-27lbs, 2 = 25-27lbs, 3= 0, 4= 0, 5= 15-20lbs, 6= didn't register but let out a little are when I hit the button on the gauge. Gonna try the wet test described in the manual and see what I get. Is 25-27 lbs a normal range for compression. I did the test as the manual states, drove it around, heated it up, removed all plugs, coil wire, turned it over.

[Plymouthy Adams]

wow..from running to those specs..did you by chance jump timing..book calls for 105 lbs +/_ 10 lbs between cylinders..of course a high mileage engine could be less but the key is even across the 6 cylinders

if wet test bring up the pressure..as I think it may as you have been trying to start a car for so long it may have all the oil washed off the pistons..

how far you from another forum member who may be able to shed some light on you troubleshooting nd see if anything has been overlooked..it is not hard to over complicate things after a few set backs..many folks then get to questioning everything it seems

[Rusty Shackleford]

I forgot to mention that I picked the car up from the shop the day after it went in. They got it running and I drove it home. It seems to be running pretty much the same as it always had.