Electrical puzzle

[White Spyder]

I have installed LED bulbs in the back of my '48 Chrysler. Running lights and brake lights work great and are a vast improvement over the old lights. The problem is turn lights. The front are regular bulbs and the flasher unit is NOS. Prior to the LED install right turns worked fine but left did not (Bad bulb I think in the rear front lit but did not flash) With the LED I get nice bright flash on the front but VERY week flashing at the rear for both sides. I get only right indicator on the dash. The parking brake light flashes perfectly. Any ideas on a fix?

[Greenbomb]

How about maybe you need a heavy duty flasher unit?

[Mark Haymond]

I can't figure it out exactly but I can give you some clues. The old (and new) can shaped flasher relays work by heating up a wire inside (like a toaster wire), which makes warps a metal plate. The plate warping makes the click, click, click. And they need bulb current to do their job. If all your bulbs failed there would not be any current to make the relay click. If only one of the bulbs had failed that means less current to heat the wire and the clicking slows down. So maybe the left turn indicator bulb in your dash has burned out. That might kill or lessen the "left turn" current for front and rear.

Another thing to remember is that LED lights probably use less current that the old fashioned incandescent bulbs, and may not pull as much heating current to make the relay work normally. If I were you I would check my left hand dash indicator bulb and my left front turn signal bulb.

Here is a link to "How stuff works" that my help.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turn-signal2.htm

[55 Fargo]

Much less current draw, with LED bulbs, so the bi-metalic flasher, needs more juice draw in the circuit, to work correctly.

I think possibly an electronic 6 volt flasher might work better in this case, but have not tested this theory.

[1941Rick]

You have to use a flasher built for LEDs....

[White Spyder]

I can't figure it out exactly but I can give you some clues. The old (and new) can shaped flasher relays work by heating up a wire inside (like a toaster wire), which makes warps a metal plate. The plate warping makes the click, click, click. And they need bulb current to do their job. If all your bulbs failed there would not be any current to make the relay click. If only one of the bulbs had failed that means less current to heat the wire and the clicking slows down. So maybe the left turn indicator bulb in your dash has burned out. That might kill or lessen the "left turn" current for front and rear.

Another thing to remember is that LED lights probably use less current that the old fashioned incandescent bulbs, and may not pull as much heating current to make the relay work normally. If I were you I would check my left hand dash indicator bulb and my left front turn signal bulb.

Here is a link to "How stuff works" that my help.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turn-signal2.htm

Thanks, I will change that bulb. It is not that they do not flash, it is that the rear are extreamly dim. Front OEM style bulbs are bright. Rear are bright with the headlights on. When I get home I will put a meter on it and check the voltage level of the rear when flashing.

[suntennis]

As Mark Haymond mentioned, the flasher needs a certain amout of resistance in the circuit to work normally. Since LED units draw low current, your curcuit needs more resistance to get your flasher to operate normally. Try putting a regular tail light bulb on one brake lite circuit with the LED and see if that will make the flasher operate normal. If this works, then it is a fix.

[busycoupe]

Check the ground connections, especially on the right rear. If the ground is poor the directional will ground back through the tail light circuit and make the directional very dim. Use an ohm meter from the lamp socket to the body of the car. Use should get zero ohms, or very nearly zero.

Dave

[Alexander]

LEDs on average use much less current. The flasher needs a certain load to trigger. Your LED lights are too efficient and do not create enough of a load for your flasher. One way to work around it is to add back the load that you too away. Perhaps wire additional light bulbs in to the circuit or change to solid sate flasher

[White Spyder]

As Mark Haymond mentioned, the flasher needs a certain amout of resistance in the circuit to work normally. Since LED units draw low current, your curcuit needs more resistance to get your flasher to operate normally. Try putting a regular tail light bulb on one brake lite circuit with the LED and see if that will make the flasher operate normal. If this works, then it is a fix.

There was discussion of the electronic flasher in another thread. Another member had success with the same set up I am running with the front bulbs providing enough resistance to make the oem flasher work. I have been searching today for a 6v postive ground LED compatible unit without much luck.

[White Spyder]

First a thank you for all the comments.

I checked things out with a volt meter and found that there is plenty of juice at the socket. So, with grounding appearing to be the issue I used a bit of sand paper to clean the contact points between the socket and the body of the car. As I wiggled the bulb into place it came alive. Fixed I thought. But I was not to be so lucky, it still would not flash for a turn. Wiggled the bulb and now it would flash for a turn but not light when the headlights were on. I found that by cantering the bulb to one side or the other gave me either marker light of flash for turn.

Looking at the base of the bulb it appeared that the contact for one element was longer than the other thus causing the issue of poor contact in the socket base for power. Sanded the bulb base level but to no avail. still could get one or the other by only pushing the bulb to either side.

I now think it is the grounding of the pins on the side of the bulb to the socket wall. Any one have an extra socket in good shape for sale?

[greg g]

You can get replacement sockets at most auto stores. Most modern ones will probably have offset pins. You can also get just the pigtail that slips into the socket.

Give some thought to running a dedicated ground wire from the assembly to the body.

And if you don't already have one, a grounding lead from the firewall to the engine or frame will also go a ways to mediating electrical gremlins. A couple piece of 10 gauge wound togehter will usually do the trick for grounding the body.

[Don Coatney]

When I converted to two element bulbs I bought new indexed sockets from the auto parts store. I then soldered the new sockets in place as pictured below. I did this for the rears only as I have not yet installed blinkers on the fronts.

[TodFitch]

Sounds like you may have two problems: The lack of flashing which has been dealt with by a number of posts. But you also note that the new rear LEDs are really bright with the headlights on and go dim when they flash. I'm wondering if you've got the wires crossed on them so the tail light wire is being connected to the brake/turn signal circuit and the brake/turn signal wire is connected to the tail light circuit.

[White Spyder]

Sounds like you may have two problems: The lack of flashing which has been dealt with by a number of posts. But you also note that the new rear LEDs are really bright with the headlights on and go dim when they flash. I'm wondering if you've got the wires crossed on them so the tail light wire is being connected to the brake/turn signal circuit and the brake/turn signal wire is connected to the tail light circuit.

The turn light does not have a brake light on the Windsor it has a single brake light in the center.

The combination of the stock flasher and LED are working on the right side and on left when the bulb is held in the right position. I used alligator clips with the bulb out of the socket to power and ground and all worked as it should. So, I think the issue is the socket..

I do plan to add another ground as suggested. My Fiero ran much better when I added an extra ground to it. Smoother idle and better overall electrical performance.

[White Spyder]

Been busy traveling with work and did not have any time to sort this out. Now I have installed a new socket and no longer have to rock the bulb side to side to get it to work. Still can not get the running light and flasher to work right. I can get the running light to work or the turn to work but not both. It is one or the other. I have wired the socket to the clips and traded switching but no luck. Any ideas?

[Niel Hoback]

Have you run a dedicated ground wire from that socket to the body? Other than that, its gremlins.

[White Spyder]

Finally got a chance to do some more work on this issue. Ran a ground from the battery to the socket and it did not make a difference.

I did find something new though. In the past all testing has been don with the e-brake engaged and warning light flashing. When I disengage the brake, thus turning of the warning flasher, the turn light no longer work for either side. Is the relay bad or do I have another issue?