Production years 201, 218, 230 and more...

[Rumblin Rolf]

Being a newbie in this forum, having a 1937 Plymouth BC I'm upgrading, I need some advice regarding the different engines. Might find this info somewhere in this fantastic well of info but ask the question anyway.

In what cars and productionyears do I find, especially, the 218 and the 230 engines? My car is in very good original condition and the plan is to get it a bit closer to the ground, maybe upgrade to a T5 gearbox and build a 230 with twin carbs, twin exhaust and a bit higher compression. Also need advice regarding carbs and changing from 6 volts plusground to 12 volts negative.

Thanks in advance! /HotRolf

[greg g]

Plymouth changed from 201 to 218 in 42 I believe, Dodge was runing 218 when plymouth had 201. Dodge dropped the 218 in 42 in favor of the 230, Plymouth got the 230 during the 54 production year. The difference between the 218 and 230 is the stroke, so swapping dodge crank and rods into a Plymouth 218 will net you a stealth 230. So if you ar looking for a 230 any dodge D24 and later and any plymouth p26 and later are for sure 230's. There were som varients in the Truck engines that I'm ot sure of but probably some of the truck guys will have when the change over was made.

[TodFitch]

Plymouth changed from 201 to 218 in 42 I believe, Dodge was runing 218 when plymouth had 201. Dodge dropped the 218 in 42 in favor of the 230, Plymouth got the 230 during the 54 production year. The difference between the 218 and 230 is the stroke, so swapping dodge crank and rods into a Plymouth 218 will net you a stealth 230. So if you ar looking for a 230 any dodge D24 and later and any plymouth p26 and later are for sure 230's. There were som varients in the Truck engines that I'm ot sure of but probably some of the truck guys will have when the change over was made.

Except if he has a 1937 P4 block. At least on Plymouth there was a change on the bearings between the 201 and the 218, so I don't think you can drop a later 218 or 230 crank into a 201 block.

[greg g]

I think I pointed out the displacement difference was between 218 and 230, not the 201.

His post indicated he was interested in locating a 230, so I did not believe he was resusing his original engine.

[Rumblin Rolf]

greg g, thanks for the info, you're right about not modify my 201. What year did Plymouth and Dodge stop using the 230's? Was it used even later in military app's, caterpillars, stationary use or such?

Since I live in Sweden the amount of donorcars are probably limited... and also the stock of "high performance" parts.

[Merle Coggins]

Most of the Dodge Power Wagons used a 230

[greg g]

The military used them well beyond the end of their application automobiles in 59. They were used as stationary engines and those applications usually started with an "I", They were also used to power Custom and Cockshutt (I think) tractors, and also Massey Harris combines. Clark Equipment used them for airport ground service vehicles, like tugs and mobile stairs and baggage conveyors, and jet plane aux power units. Compressors, welders, and pumps were also powered by them. Military uses included light trucks and ambulances. may of these were manufactured and powered by mopar flat 6 engines into the late 60's. Lot of marine applications also.

Just be careful if you find one in this type of application as they maybe the long block engine (25 inches at the head) but if your car was built as an export model, it may already have a 25 inch engine. Measure the head and let us know. It still may be a 230, if ti was made in Canada, but the 25's were also available in 251 and 265 Cubic inches.

split manifolds are available from a member here,olddaddy. and home made tubular intakes and exhausts are made by member moose. But you gotta be sure of the head length before getting involved.

[TodFitch]

greg g, thanks for the info, you're right about not modify my 201. What year did Plymouth and Dodge stop using the 230's? Was it used even later in military app's, caterpillars, stationary use or such?

Since I live in Sweden the amount of donorcars are probably limited... and also the stock of "high performance" parts.

The 1966 Dodge truck factory service manual I had way back when had a section on repair and service for the L-6 engine used on a WM (military/power wagon) model. I've heard the engines were built until 1972 for industrial applications.

[Rusty O'Toole]

There were 2 different six cylinder engines made by Chrysler Corporation for cars, light trucks, and also military equipment, industrial engines, and marine engines from 1938 to 1972.

The smaller engine measures 23 inches long at the cylinder head, it was used in Plymouth, Dodge, Dodge trucks and marine and industrial use. Most common are 217 cu in (Plymouth) and 230 cu in (Dodge). Cars and light trucks used these engines until 1959.

The larger engine measures 25 inches long at the cylinder head, it was used in DeSoto, Chrysler cars and some heavy Dodge trucks up to 1962 and as a marine and industrial power plant up to 1972. Military Dodge Power Wagons used this engine until 1968. Usually found in 236, 251, and 265 cu in versions. The 251 is most common, the 265 rather rare as it was used only in 1953 and 54 Chrysler Windsor and as a marine and industrial engine.

Canadian made cars got only the long engine. The Canadian plant made a special version with a 3 3/8 cylinder bore and 218 and 228 cu in for Canadian made Plymouth, Dodge and Dodge trucks. Canadian made DeSotos got the 265 engine in 1953 and 54, along with Chrysler.

Massey Ferguson tractors and combines used Chrysler engines for years, from the late 30s up to the sixties.

Possibly the wildest application of the flathead six was an army tank engine made during WW2, that consisted of 5 industrial engines bunched together like bananas.

http://www.allpar.com/history/military/arsenal-of-democracy.html

As you live in Sweden you may find almost anything. If you find an engine that looks like a Chrysler product get the serial number, that will tell more than anything.

Serial numbers usually start with a C for Chrysler, D for Dodge, P for Plymouth, S for DeSoto, T for Dodge truck, IND for industrial.

This is a brief outline, there are other details and other engines I have not mentioned.

Here is a good site to help identify different engines, it is part of the Vintage Power Wagon web site, they are great experts on the old Dodge Power Wagon trucks and have lots of parts too.

http://t137.com/registry/help/otherengines/otherengines.php

Very briefly, flathead sixes were used in

Chrysler and DeSoto cars, up to 1954

Dodge and Plymouth cars, and Dodge pickup trucks up to 1959

Large trucks, 1 1/2 ton and larger, to 1962

Military Power Wagon 4 wheel drive trucks, to 1968

Industrial engines to 1972.

Incidentally you may find export "DeSotos"that were actually badge engineered Plymouths having the flathead engine up to 1959.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Rusty O'Toole

[RobertKB]

The Canadian made long block engines came in many different displacements starting in 1938 as mentioned by Rusty. The CID's I can think of for the Canadian long block (25") are 201, 218, 228, 242, 251, and 265. The 218, 228, and 251 are the most common.

Chrysler only had one engine plant in Canada and as it is a small market, they only produced the long block which makes it incredibly easy to pick up an engine here. Any Canadian made engine, regardless of initial use, will bolt in.

Edited October 26, 2011 by RobertKB
Spelling

[Andydodge]

Rolf, the 230 was used in Plymouth cars up to 1959, the 230 industrial engines at least to the early 70's...I have an airport Tug 230 that I intend to use with a T5 in my 1941 Plymouth, which as it has a 201 is a bolt in.

I have been collecting engine rebuild parts for the 230 for the past 2yrs with quite a lot coming from ebay sellers in Turkey who sell USA made and boxed genuine Mopar parts for 1/3rd the cost of getting stuff from the USA. I have obtained valves, valve springs, lifters, oil pump, timing chain, timing gear all from Turkey without any hassles so it is worth considering. The Edgy Finned Head & Offy intake pictured have come from the US. Pistons, rings & crank,rod & cam bearings also ex USA......the Carbies I am running are Oz bulit single barrel Strombergs from Oz Holdens, I have a Langdon HEI & Beehive Filter on the stock 201 in the Plymouth at present. The car will run the twin outlet split exhaust manifold as shown on the engine on the stand and the round alloy thing is an Oz made adaptor to run a Holden 6 water pump.......anyway trust this helps.......andyd

[Rusty O'Toole]

I even have a 225 cu in industrial engine. It is a 3 7/16 bore, 25" block with a 4 1/16" stroke crankshaft.

In other words, the DeSoto/Chrysler block with the short stroke crankshaft usually found in Canadian made 3 3/8 bore 218 Plymouth and Dodge engines.

This engine was made in the US industrial engines plant. This particular combination of parts was never used as a car or truck engine.

If you find an industrial engine you are in luck, they come with heavy duty parts including a block with sleeved cylinders.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Rusty O'Toole

[Rusty O'Toole]

Andy I believe Chrysler had a factory in Turkey that produced trucks. For some reason they were usually badged as DeSotos and Fargos. This may account for the supply of parts.

[Don Coatney]

If you find an industrial engine you are in luck' date=' they come with heavy duty parts including a block with sleeved cylinders.[/quote']

What all "heavy duty" parts do they come with? I did not know that sleeving qualified an engine as "heavy duty". What is the source of this information? I would like to read more...

[Rusty O'Toole]

Evidently Chrysler Corp thought hardened sleeves qualify as "heavy duty" since they only use them in the industrial engines. As the source of this information is not between your ears it must be bogus so don't worry about it.

[Don Coatney]

Evidently Chrysler Corp thought hardened sleeves qualify as "heavy duty" since they only use them in the industrial engines. As the source of this information is not between your ears it must be bogus so don't worry about it.

The source of this information is not between my ears so I will not worry about it. But if you are posting bogus information I would think you should at minium produce a source. Or stop posting bogus information.

[RobertKB]

Don, the engine in my '48 Dodge D25 came from a 1955 Dodge 3-Ton grain truck. It has exhaust valves which are the same size as the intake valves. Normally, the exhaust valves are smaller. I believe this would be one of the qualities of a Chrysler made heavy duty flathead. Looks the same on the outside but some differences on the inside. I am not sure what the other differences are, if any. Sleeving the cylinders may possibly be one for some reason such as longevity.

This is another example of a Canadian made car taking any and all long block engines. I gave my wife's cousin a bottle of rye for the engine and except for cleaning up and replacing a burnt intake valve, it has been sitting under the hood of my '48 Dodge D25 club coupe for over 30 years.

[Don Coatney]

Don, the engine in my '48 Dodge D25 came from a 1955 Dodge 3-Ton grain truck. It has exhaust valves which are the same size as the intake valves. Normally, the exhaust valves are smaller. I believe this would be one of the qualities of a Chrysler made heavy duty flathead. Looks the same on the outside but some differences on the inside. I am not sure what the other differences are, if any. Sleeving the cylinders may possibly be one for some reason such as longevity.

This is another example of a Canadian made car taking any and all long block engines. I gave my wife's cousin a bottle of rye for the engine and except for cleaning up and replacing a burnt intake valve, it has been sitting under the hood of my '48 Dodge D25 club coupe for over 30 years.

Thanks Robert;

That is good information. Do you know a source to read more about this issue?

[Plymouthy Adams]

Dodge truck engines were based on corporate car engines..but a few changes did make them not quite the same. Usually in the 1/2 ton series the upgrade was only a set of chrome rings in place of steel ones. Now the bigger trucks would get some more serious upgrades like sodium valves, shot peened crank and valve rotators as just a few of the differences.

As for the commercial engine..I cannot weight in except to say that the engines were available through Chrysler dealerships through the mid 80's new in the crate as they were continued in production through the early 70's. This I did rear in the Mopar magazine that I used to subscribe. Many were picked up by the car owners as replacements and the intakes etc particular to the car were installed to make them a drop in.

[RobertKB]

Thanks Robert;

That is good information. Do you know a source to read more about this issue?

No, I do not know a source for more info. Maybe the AllPar site. Probably B Watson of this forum would be a knowledgeable source also.

[Plymouthy Adams]

kinda waiting for Bill to drop a line her..he is a source of knowledge like no other..I read a lot and remember a few details along the way but I don't always know where or can put my hand on the reference so oft times I don't say nothing so as not to confuse..I'd like to have access to Bill files/library..what great reading it must be.

[Rusty O'Toole]

Flathead Chrysler industrial block with sleeves.

There were different options available such as, choice of chain driven or gear driven camshaft. Updraft or downdraft carburetors. Exhaust manifolds discharging up or down. They even made reverse rotation engines for marine use, with special distributors generators and starters.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Rusty O'Toole

[Andydodge]

The 230 engine I have which is an Industrial engine does NOT have any cylinder sleeves, in fact I have not found any parts on it that are different from a normal 40's or 50's mopar 6. It does have the Chrysler Industrial plate riveted to the block and the previous owner told me it was supposedly from an Airport Tug used at Sydney Airport........the wonderful thing is that it appears not to have an engine number, nothing is stamped where they are on the boss above where the generator would live...........me being the generous person I am may have to ensure that at the very least a 1941 number may appear there...........lol...........andyd

[Rumblin Rolf]

Thanks for the overwhelming respons!! To clarify, my car is built in Evansville and the engine # starts with P and is, as far as I see, a "shortblock" 201 cui which means I have to stay with the, as well, short 230 cui (or 218 whith 230 crankshaft).

[B-Watson]

The 265 engine first appeared in 1952 and was used in Chryslers from 1952 to 1954. Canadian-built DeSotos also used the 265 from 1952 through 1954. The American-built DeSoto used the 251 from 1951 through 1954.

All American-built export Plymouths, Dodges and Plymouth-based Dodges and DeSotos used the 23" block while the Canadian-built versions used the 25" block from 1938 through 1959.

By the way, the 1957 and 1958 DeSoto Firesweep 6 Taxi used the 230-cid engine. No idea how many were built in 1958, but 1957 production totalled 139.