Unstucking a 218

[furiousgeorge]

I have 2 218's that came with my '49 1/2 ton, both are stuck. I can't seem to find any good engines anywhere within a sane distance from my town that aren't priced shy high. What are some suggestions for getting them loose? I know one is just parts, the oil pan was left off and it sat outside for many years, also there are 2 missing rod caps. The other was left in the truck with the front end off, also outside for years. I drained probibly a couple gallons of water out the oil pan. I haven't had time yet to take the pan off it too see what its like on the bottom end, hopefully this afternoon.

Thanks!

[Don Coatney]

And we are supposed to guess the location of your town????

Have you used the search function to look for answers? There is a current thread on your question that can be found using the search function. In case you cannot find the search function on the toolbar above here is a shortcut.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/search.php

[B1B Keven]

I have 2 218's that came with my '49 1/2 ton, both are stuck. I can't seem to find any good engines anywhere within a sane distance from my town that aren't priced shy high. What are some suggestions for getting them loose? I know one is just parts, the oil pan was left off and it sat outside for many years, also there are 2 missing rod caps. The other was left in the truck with the front end off, also outside for years. I drained probably a couple gallons of water out the oil pan. I haven't had time yet to take the pan off it too see what its like on the bottom end, hopefully this afternoon.

Thanks!

Here's some good info.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=29032

[furiousgeorge]

I live in the middle of Saskatchewan, not that it matters. The only 2 good engines within 3 hrs are priced at 1000 and 1200. Not within my range of affordability. I've tried soaking the cylinders in WD-40, ATF and diesel. No luck. Only one piston wiggles, the rest won't even let the oil by. The engine is out of the truck on a stand, putting a bar on it just tips the stand. It sat for nearly 2 weeks with the WD and the diesel, and 10 days or so with the ATF. This is going to be a stock restoration, so a more affordable engine swap doesn't fit what I want. The search didn't bring up anything new, though I ran out of time and didn't read them all.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Hate to be a bit negative on this one but----Kinda sounds like both engines are not worth saving sitting that long in very poor conditions. 2 gallons of water in the pan- that alone is the worst situation. The aluminum pistons and rings are corroded solid too. Rod and main journals are most likely rusted some what. Even if you do get one free probably a complete rebuild will be necessary.

Some frozen engines have a chance like fred's engine- these two??????

[1950 Special Deluxe]

I live in the middle of Saskatchewan, not that it matters.

Whereabouts?

I am in Saskatoon.

[Dave72dt]

I'd take the one full of water apart anyway. Surface rust on the parts most likely. Crank might be able to be turned, cylinders may be bored. Find out what you have or don't have before discarding. On the other one you may be able to pull the crank and then work on the pistons, depending on access to the rod bolts.

[oldmopar]

a 230 would also fit and they used these engines up until 1960 in dodge trucks also were used in some fork trucks and compressors keep looking you will find something that will work

[PatS....]

There is Elfros Salvage in Elfros SK and Jensens in Webb SK, both have a few flatties on the yard. I can scrounge up a 251 block and crank I think.

[furiousgeorge]

I live in Watrous. I was planning on a full rebuild, hoping that between the two engines, I could get one built. I've looked for 218 to 251's, but I have no luck. I've heard of the Elfros wreckers, but I didn't think a wrecker would have an engine that old thats still free, Jensens I've never heard of. Can I use the pistons and rods I have with the 251 block? What all is interchangable between the different sizes? My 218's are the 25" block.

[Rusty O'Toole]

I live in Watrous. I was planning on a full rebuild, hoping that between the two engines, I could get one built. I've looked for 218 to 251's, but I have no luck. I've heard of the Elfros wreckers, but I didn't think a wrecker would have an engine that old thats still free, Jensens I've never heard of. Can I use the pistons and rods I have with the 251 block? What all is interchangable between the different sizes? My 218's are the 25" block.

Canadian made Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto and Chrylser and Dodge trucks all used the same basic engine 1938 -1959 for cars, up to 1962 in 2 ton trucks and 1968 in military Power Wagons (like the ambulance on MASH). They were made until 1972 for industrial, stationary power plants and marine engines.

There were 2 different piston sizes, 3 3/8 usually found in Plymouth, Dodge and Dodge trucks (although some early 40s DeSotos used them) and 3 7/16 for DeSoto and Chrysler. Note that the difference is only 1/16". A Plymouth or Dodge block can easily be bored out to DeSoto/Chrysler size with no problems. The blocks could be bored up to 1/8" as part of a normal rebuild, and with today's sonic testing can be bored even farther.

Then, there were several crankshafts with different strokes. Most common were 4 1/16, 4 1/4, 4 1/2. The largest was 4 3/4 used in the 53 and 54 DeSoto and Chrysler, some trucks and the largest industrial and marine units.

There were only 2 different pistons and they differed only in diameter. Each different crankshaft came with matching connecting rods of the correct length. Crankshafts and rods can be interchanged only in sets. Use the wrong length rod and your pistons will stick up above the block, or fail to rise high enough.

Engine sizes,

3 3/8 X 4 1/16 = 218 (Plymouth, Dodge, Dodge truck)

3 3/8 X 4 1/4 = 228 (Dodge, Dodge truck, prewar DeSoto)

3 7/16 X 4 1/4 = 237 (DeSoto, Chrysler)

3 7/16 X 4 1/2 = 251 (DeSoto, Chrysler, Dodge truck)

3 7/16 X 4 3/4 = 265 (DeSoto, Chrysler, Dodge truck)

All these were also available as industrial engines. I even have a 225 cu in industrial engine, 3 7/16 X 4 1/16.

As you live in farming country you might keep an eye open for old Massey combines. They used Chrysler industrial engines. So did a lot of other equipment makers. I have one off a water pump and another off an air compressor and have seen them in air compressors and combines. The air force used a lot of aircraft tugs with Chrysler flatheads as well as generator sets and air compressors. Also road rollers and other road building equipment.

They were made until 1972 for industrial use.

Dodge trucks used them until 1959 very much in various sizes, after that only the 251 and 265 in 1 1/2 ton and larger trucks. There should be some old Dodge trucks sitting around.

One thing you have to watch out for is blocks cracked by frost. The block must be drained separate from the rad by a tap on the left side. I have seen a block split lengthwise down the whole left side, but often there is a horizontal crack behind the starter.

A frozen block is not the kiss of death if it is not too bad but if you can find a good block no use fixing a cracked one.

56 or newer is good if you want to go 12 volt, that is when they changed. The flywheel ring gear is different as well as the starter.

The 1958 up head is supposed to be the best for power and compression. Some engines had full flow oil filters, these were found on Chrysler and DeSoto starting in the late 40s. They had larger pipes on the oil filter, or a tower type oil filter.

There is nothing wrong with the partial flow filter as long as you change oil regularly. They are found on the cheaper Plymouth Dodge and Dodge truck engines.

I can't believe there are no old Dodge trucks or Chrysler powered farm implements in fence rows and old machine sheds in Saskatchewan.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Rusty O'Toole

[NiftyFifty]

I'm at Oak Lake MB about 45mins across the sk/mb border and I have a couple of unseized 218 s I could sell you... $150 takes it, but you would still need to rebuild

[dmulhall]

nice to see some other people from Sask

I'm in Prince Albert

[55 Fargo]

I live in Watrous. I was planning on a full rebuild, hoping that between the two engines, I could get one built. I've looked for 218 to 251's, but I have no luck. I've heard of the Elfros wreckers, but I didn't think a wrecker would have an engine that old thats still free, Jensens I've never heard of. Can I use the pistons and rods I have with the 251 block? What all is interchangable between the different sizes? My 218's are the 25" block.

If you can come to the Winnipeg area, I should be able to get something for you.

I know where there isa 265 industrial engine, on a welder, $150, you drive in and he loads on your truck or trailer.

A friend, has a few engines, will ask him, and will make some inquiries for you, PM me, if you are interested........Fred

[furiousgeorge]

Thanks for the offers! But I'm n ot reallt in a possition to drive such a long way for an engine right now, my works really slowed down, so time to focus on other things. I have looked at farm machinery here, but found either stuck engines, or cracked ones. Farmers here don't run small equipment like that anymore, so they've been sitting in fields for 25+ years. I did see a grain truck about the right time frame by the highway going to work, but I haven't been able to find out who's it is. I'll keep my eyes open, I really want a stock truck for the local show and tooling around town in.

Yep, not so many guys from Saskatchewan around, mostly chevy guys down here in my part of the country.

In the mean time, I'll strip the rotten wood out of the bed, and get is straightened out and primed. Not sure what color to go with yet. The truck is brush painted green, but it's a reddish/maroon color in the door jams and such. Suggestions? What are the stock colors for a '49?

Thanks!

[NiftyFifty]

Focusing on the power train would be my first call, unless your after a trailer queen. Dont give up looking for a motor, can't be that far from where you are to the mb border, so if you need just let me know... But once you dig in to any flathead you have to be ready for surprises.

[Rusty O'Toole]

Did you see this, should give you a little encouragement.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=29249

[furiousgeorge]

Won't be a show truck, just a nice driver. But I have to focus on what I have on hand to work with. No engine yet, so I have to replace all the wood in the box (its all comepletely rotton), clean out the interior and get good seats, brakes and so on. Lots to do. My truck came to me in pieces and had been stored outside for at least 2 years, probibly longer. Its not just a simple drop in an engine and go.

[catfishcuz]

Try this it worked for me. Butch http://gasengine.farmcollector.com/Farm-Life/Thanks-For-The-Vinegar.aspx

[55 Fargo]

Try a mixture of ATF and Seafoam, worked very well for me i a 251 Mopar flathead, that was stuck in atleast 4 cyls...

[furiousgeorge]

Finally found a good one (maybe)! It's an industrial engine from a combine that an older fellow put in a '40 truck. He passed on, and his son now has it, but is doing a V8 swap. It's been changed to 12v, and apparently was running/driving last year. He doesn't know what size it is, but says it runs real nice. It's attatched to a on the floor three speed, (which is what I've got), so I'm thinking its as good as I'm going to find. He wants $200 for it. It's a fair drive from here, but thankfully, my parents are fairly close to it, so my Dad is going to take a look at it for me and make the deal if it's still good. The only downside, and its a small one, is that Dad has no idea what he's looking at or for. I sent him pictures of my 218, told him what to messure, and sent pictures of the bellhousing and crank for bolt patern reference. He should be fine I think. As long as it still turns over, it's good enough for me! Finally making progress!

[Dave72dt]

That's part of the intrigue of these trucks. Finding parts! Eventuallly they show up. Sometimes we have to go out of our way or pay more than we'd like but that's very common with older vehicles, regardless of brand. Reproduction parts aren't always next day either. I've been waiting 2 months for a vinyl top to show up. Maybe this week. Congats on your find.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I am not even doing a restoration though I do look for original parts..some of the best memories of the build is the long search and ultimate find of the one part that was so elusive. And in modification it is not the mod itself that is so involved but the items it interacts with that also needed tweaked...overcoming these difficutlies is rewarding also..

I will say this..if you come across a good deal and even if it is a bit of a drive..it is better to have it in hand than to kick the tire saying if only I had driven that 50 miles...the situation at hand may not be looking so bleak..

[furiousgeorge]

I'm glad to have (hopefully) this particular search over! Though it's about 850 kms round trip, Dad can hold onto it until I can get a truck to pick it up from him. The only other things I'm going to need are a hood ornament and a radio (someone put a horizontal GM radio in it at some time, cutting up the dash in the process). Everything els is there. The plan is to rebuild the mechanicals, change the wood in the bed, and drive it as the body is. Though I doubt my wife will ever ride in it that way! She likes 'em shiney!

[Plymouthy Adams]

get her some rose colored glasses...I believe once you establish the condition of the engine and get it placed aside you can make headway on other parts as this is one more big ticket item off your mind.