Water pump replacement

[TodFitch]

PS, Bob do I see two grease fittings on your pump?

Sure looks like it has two grease fittings doesn't it.

Back in my youth when I drove my 33 from Maryland to California, I made a loop tour from my parent's house in southern Arizona. First day out from their house, where I'd left all my spare parts, the water pump started knocking. All I did was make it a ritual to put some grease in the water pump each time I got gasoline. Made it up to Reno, NV then to SF Bay, down to San Diego then back to Arizona that way. Probably close to 2,000 miles.

On the cars I've had with modern sealed water pump bearings the limit has been about 100 miles from first noise to catastrophic failure.

While they may not last as long and need more maintenance, there is something to be said for older technology that can be so forgiving of abuse and still get you home.

[greg g]

Mine is starting to growl at me, and as you can see, my radiator is definately going to need to be moved. I did not need the two spacers between the fan and pulley.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I agree with you guy's a water pump that is sealed is better. Don, I was always scared of pumping grease in that water pump. I know I did not use the correct grease as my grease gun only has chasis grease in it. So if that's what made it fail it's my fault. That pump has always been suspect. I have that wrench someplace and I can't find it:rolleyes: just when you need something. I think I now have the confidence to do it.

PS, Bob do I see two grease fittings on your pump?

Rodney, Yes there are two fittings on that water pump in the one picture. It's a 1950 Chrysler 8 cylinder pump-Straight "8" engines are all double zerk fitting pumps. The 8's use ball bearings instead of bushings.

Bob

[TodFitch]

Mine is starting to growl at me, and as you can see, my radiator is definately going to need to be moved. I did not need the two spacers between the fan and pulley.

That looks about the same as the clearance I have on my 33. It's possible to do mine without removing the radiator but easy to skin your knuckles on the radiator while you do it.

[RobertKB]

Mine is starting to growl at me, and as you can see, my radiator is definately going to need to be moved. I did not need the two spacers between the fan and pulley.

I am not sure why you have the two spacers between the fan and the pulley?? I place them, if needed, between the pulley and the waterpump to make sure the belt lines up evenly around the pulley, the generator, and the crankshaft pulley. Waterpumps vary slightly and I find I need 0, 1, or occasionally 2 pulleys to make the belt line up properly.

Also, without the two spacers it would give you more room to remove the fan. Hopefully you won't be posting pictures of your skinned knuckles!

[yourpc48]

I just looked them up and there are at least 3 on ebay right now. The number of the tool is S-9470C if you want to buy one. Thanks to the forum I will be making my own to make my water pump swap a little easier. It will sit with my custom flathead valve spring compressor.

[Rodney Bullock]

I hear about the speal tool to remove the bolts is this needed or can I just use a socket? Can someone show what bolts need to be removed to take the pumpm off? Are there studs or bolts?

[Young Ed]

You can use just a wrench or socket. The tool just makes it easier. Look at the new pump when you get it and you'll see what bolts need to be removed. The quote from the shop manual above says studs but a 51 engine should have bolts.

[desoto1939]

Rodney,

The special tool that I am refering to see the early post with the picture is used to remove the four bolts that hold the fanblade onto the pulley. You can not use a socket and racket to get the botls out because of the small amount of space between the fanblade and the radiator. You can use an openend wrench or a box wrench.

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[greg g]

This is a spot where the gear wreches (ratcheting box wrenches) come in handy.

But I do not have enough clearence to back the bolts out even if I got them loosened

[Young Ed]

Pulling the radiator on a p15 is relatively straight forward. Two hose clamps and I believe 6 bolts. Then you have more room to work on the pump. I got the bolts out of my fan but the fan itself wouldn't clear the hub of the pump so out came the radiator.

[desoto1939]

On my 39 desoto I would still have to pullthe fan blade off the waterpump to get enough clearence to pull the radiator out. If the fan blade was still on the WP I could not lift the unit out without damaging the inside fins of the rad.

I know we are talking about a Plymouth that is 2-3 years later than my 39 but I would think the process of taking the WP off the car still would be the same. I will check my motors repair to see what it states about the Ply.

This also has me stumped.

Rich Hartung

[Young Ed]

Your 39 still has a butterfly hood. That probably explains the differences. The p15s with the more conventional aligator hood you can pull the radiator straight up and out with the waterpump fan etc still in place.

Edit 39 plymouths have butterfly hoods-does your desoto?

[Rodney Bullock]

OK that makes sense. Rich and I have to contend with the butterfly hood. The tool has to do with removing the fan. The vise grips though me:confused:

[desoto1939]

Yes the 39 Desoto has the butterfly style hood and my radiator is more into the radiator shell.

Rich Hartung

[yourpc48]

OK that makes sense. Rich and I have to contend with the butterfly hood. The tool has to do with removing the fan. The vise grips though me:confused:

Sorry If I confused you. I was just saying that sometimes I make my own tools. The tool that people were talking about to get the fan bolts out would be simple to make rather than spend over $20 on one. I posted that I would make one and it would go along well with the Visegrip spring compressor tool I made. One of those tools that you dont use very often but come in handy for a particular purpose. Heres a pic of the fan tool I found on eBay. You can see that if you had an extra 1/2 inch socket and some 1/8 in x1 in steel stock how you could easily make one.

Once again sorry for any confusion.

[Powerhouse]

If it helps anyone...MAKE SURE YOU HAVE BOLTS and not STUDS holding the water pump on or you may not be able to get the pump off without removing the radiator. I was helping a friend work on his 37 and it was impossible to do because he had studs in there. The fan was really hard to slide out between the radiator as well.

[desoto1939]

I looked in my motors repair manual under the Plymouth and for the 40 Ply they mention that you need to remove the nut that hold the WP onto the engine block and then take water pump pliers and then remove each stud from the block and then you can take the entire wp assembly out of the engine compartment.

In this case I would agree that using a treaed bolt might be better but definately put some antisize on the thread to insure that you can get the bolt out again since it probably will be going into the water jacket area and then the threads might rust up and then you might snap the bolt.

Just my 2 cents on the topic. It is very strange that on my 39 Desoto that has the same butterfly hood I can take the WP off the engine without having to remove the studs but on the 40 Ply you have to go the extra step and Rodney also has a butterfly hood.

Rich Hartung

[Rodney Bullock]

I got a new water pump coming and nothing to put it on.;)I guess I will put it on the shelf. What do you guiy's think now that I have the generator off it looks like I can get to the water pump easier you think I shouls take the pump off and put the new pump on?

[RobertKB]

I got a new water pump coming and nothing to put it on.;)I guess I will put it on the shelf. What do you guiy's think now that I have the generator off it looks like I can get to the water pump easier you think I shouls take the pump off and put the new pump on?

Simple answer.........yes. Once you replace it, you will have peace of mind and should never have to change it again as long as you own the car. Just make sure it is set up for internal or external by-pass that is on your car. Being a 1940, it will likely be external. The backing plate on the new pump should match the one on the old pump. If it doesn't I believe you can switch the plates over. Maybe others will chime in on this as well.

[desoto1939]

Rodney,

Before you take the old backing plate off the old pump please note how the bolts and washer attach from the backing plate.

If i remember correctly there is one bolt that is a little different in that there is or is not a washer on a certain bolt. If you get this in wrong then the unit will leak.

Again note the placement of the bolts and washers on the backing plate. If the backing plate is already on the new pump also verify that the bolts have the same setup.

I remember reading something in my repair manual on this so beaware.

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[greg g]

Rodney, check you PM, I sent you another info request.

[Rodney Bullock]

Ok so I got my generator off and cleaned my damper for the timing marks. Low and behold my high tech timing light will not work on a 6 volt. Joe must have a 6 volt light as I saw it flash. I know everyone knows I have a 1940 Plymouth however my motor is a little newer its a 1950-51 plymouth. My by pass set up is ....well I will let you see for yourself you tell me.

if you look real close you can see the timing mark...anybody know where I can get a 6volt timing light?

[TodFitch]

Ok so I got my generator off and cleaned my damper for the timing marks. Low and behold my high tech timing light will not work on a 6 volt. Joe must have a 6 volt light as I saw it flash. I know everyone knows I have a 1940 Plymouth however my motor is a little newer its a 1950-51 plymouth. My by pass set up is ....well I will let you see for yourself you tell me.

if you look real close you can see the timing mark...anybody know where I can get a 6volt timing light?

Non (or internal) bypass on that pump and thermostat housing.

I've successfully run my 12v timing light on my old Plymouth by using a 12v auto battery to power the device and simply having the trigger probe clipped around my #1 plug wire on the old car. Mine seems to have an inductive pick up on the probe so I guess the fact that the 12v battery is not connected in any way to the Plymouth works out.

[desoto1939]

Rodney.

I have an old sear Craftsman 12v timing light that has the pickup that clamps onto the spark plug wire. Remember that the positive which would be the red is now the ground and the black clip is on the battery. I get plenty of light to time the ar even with the garage lights on.

You just need to reverse the connects if you have positive ground on the 40 Plymouth.

Rich Hartung