440 and Heavy duty automatic.

[yourpc48]

I noticed my neighbor scrapping out an older motorhome so I asked what they were going to do with it and what engine it had. Turns out it has a 440 in it and they were going to take it all to scrap. I offered to give him scrap price for the engine and trans that has only 60k on it. $100? I said Sure! Now the question is can I resist puting it in the p15? Might it be a tight fit? Could this be a big fat can of worms Im opening? Hmmmm.

[Cpt.Fred]

i never did anything like it, but my bet is it will be quite a big can of worms, yes.

and when you're all done with the worms the remaining can will be a very fast one!

tough decision...

but now that the engine and tranny are yours anyway,

you can take your time to think it over.

please post pictures of the swap.

[greg g]

Member Ed Gross has a 440 in his P 15, you might want to contact him regardig his experience.

[dezeldoc]

My P-15 Has a 440/727 in it, and has been that way for the past 15+ years.

[Adam H P15 D30]

If a Hemi fits in my P15, a 440 will certainly fit. Not a bolt in deal but not rocket science.

[Don Coatney]

Just how "heavy duty" is this motor home automatic transmission? Does it require more real estate than a non heavy duty transmission? Is it geared the same as a a car transmission is geared? Is it an overdrive? Does it have a lock-up converter?

For a hundred bucks and a 60K unit you should feel guilty and not sleep well at night:cool: Of course if your wife boots you for tossin and turnin you can sleep in whats left of the motorhome:D

[yourpc48]

If a Hemi fits in my P15, a 440 will certainly fit. Not a bolt in deal but not rocket science.

I know its not rocket science but I finally have the car running and I drive it every day. There are some things I will have to change along with the engine if I do the deed. Rear end, front springs (if the 440 weighs much more than the L head), maybe move the battery to the trunk and maybe a pressurized radiator? I have put a Valiant Slant 6 in a D24 so I know I can do it. Its a matter of funds being self employed and all.

[yourpc48]

Just how "heavy duty" is this motor home automatic transmission? Does it require more real estate than a non heavy duty transmission? Is it geared the same as a a car transmission is geared? Is it an overdrive? Does it have a lock-up converter?

For a hundred bucks and a 60K unit you should feel guilty and not sleep well at night:cool: Of course if your wife boots you for tossin and turnin you can sleep in whats left of the motorhome:D

I have not seen the trans yet there is still motorhome wrapped around it. I will look at the steering column and see if it has an OD on the shifter. The motorome is like a singlewide mobile on wheels so Im guessing that the trans is a little better than the average car PU or Van Trans. I will do pics when it comes out. Maybe I can get help with identification since I am new to BB Mopar.

[yourpc48]

My P-15 Has a 440/727 in it, and has been that way for the past 15+ years.

Does your car have the stock front end or is it subframed? And what rear end and radiator? Thanks...

[Plymouthy Adams]

while a valid question, a more valid point of view would be what you want to do for suspension, what speed/rpm you want to cruise and how much you expect to run in accessories etc to opt for the correct cooling system..

if you have a particular build inmind..state it, detailed info in getting to that point will come faster..

[Big_John]

I have not seen the trans yet there is still motorhome wrapped around it. I will look at the steering column and see if it has an OD on the shifter. The motorome is like a singlewide mobile on wheels so Im guessing that the trans is a little better than the average car PU or Van Trans. I will do pics when it comes out. Maybe I can get help with identification since I am new to BB Mopar.

The 727 trans is pretty much the same as a passenger car version. It won't have an OD top gear and most likely won't have a lock up convertor. It may have an extra clutch plate in the high gear clutch pack and will have the 4 pinion planetary gear set. It may also have a larger oil pan, but I don't remember the RV I had having that. I think it will also have the 5.0 ratio front band lever. All basically stuff that was in the HD car trans.

What year?

[yourpc48]

The 727 trans is pretty much the same as a passenger car version. It won't have an OD top gear and most likely won't have a lock up convertor. All basically stuff that was in the HD car trans.

What year?

The MH is an 82 or so the owner says.

[yourpc48]

while a valid question, a more valid point of view would be what you want to do for suspension, what speed/rpm you want to cruise and how much you expect to run in accessories etc to opt for the correct cooling system..

if you have a particular build inmind..state it, detailed info in getting to that point will come faster..

If possible I would do a simple engine trans transplant with a Driveline and rear end change. Not for the gear ratio change but for strength and part availability. I dont mind the original front suspension although disk brakes might be nice.

I do most of my driving between 30 and 60 MPH I have in mind a rear end gear ratio of about 3 and a quarter to 3 and a half to 1. I will be having some lower profile tires on my current 15 inch rims. I cut my coils and have been very happy with the results after driving the car a couple hundred miles of country and in town driving but if the 440 weighs much more than the L Head then I may need to stiffen the front or put stock springs back in.

Subframing for me is out of the question at this time since I do not have a firm level surface to work on just gravel driveway next to the house. I dont have to worry about the wiring since I have already rewired the whole car and converted to 12 volt.

Im wondering has anyone run a modern engine with this non pressurized radiator? I will be puting another rear end in regardless of the engine swap because I do drive highway speed on a regular basis and dont like to wind up the flathead. I also dont like being passed on the highway (its a competitive thing).

Oh and No ac or power steering at this point. I ran my 36 Ford without extras I should be able to do it with the P15. I live on the Oregon Coast so it doesnt get too hot here but it does get hot in some of the places I go to.

Decisions Decisions

Edited August 19, 2011 by yourpc48

[Plymouthy Adams]

I do not recommend running a modern engine with a non pressurized system..not worth the trouble. Depends on the year of your engine at what temp it run along with what induction system you will be using..as stock out of the motor home..you can stay at 180 thermostat but I do recommend a sealed pressurized system. Summit Racing has circle track aluminum radiator that are perfect for this application. Installing this engine is not more envolved than say the 318 as the physical differents between Mopar big block and small block are not that much. You will have two options and most folks settle on a combination of both, a slight firewall mod to recess the engine and moving the radiator forward of the radiator support. In doing this and you intend to run AC be sure to keep in mind the room needed to mount the condenser and plumb the lines. In other words this may lead to altering the hood support bracket ..this is part of the one mod equal three factor...If you are not inclined to be horsing this car for burn outs etc etc and are making a daily driver/cruiser..the gear ratio with the big V8 can go very high..look for a early 70's 8.375 Mopar if you are of mind to stay all mopar from a V8 'cuda or thereabout...I personally have this gear in my 41 Dodge 383 big block with 2.76 rear ratio..yes cruiser gears..as for weight and such and doable combinations...keep in mind the last of the rear wheel drive cars was factory equipped with the 318 fast burn roller lifter engine and 2.32 rear gears with NO overdrive. The weight of these puppies compare across the board. So you can go ecnonomy minded and have a nice looking and pleasant riding machine with road manners or you can go the typical magazine route and over build your car and not enjoy it due to poor road manners and thirsty nature. Suspension upgrades like disc and relocated shocks will be a plus..these fornt suspensions were way ahead of their times. As for the drive train weight..it will be close enough not to sweat. Odds are the stock manifolds and oil pan will on the RV chassis are already center dump left and the oil pan is more than not 6 quart..be prepared to notch the front frame in a manner to allow fitting of the oil pump and filter...use a 90 degree adapter and short filter..I will tell you now that even doing this bit of work off a level and concrete pad will be a whole lot of work...modifying these or any car requires a combination of time, space, tools and skills to be effective and ensure lasting quality and saftey before, during and after the car is put on the road. Nobody is saying not to do it, but most will agree you need to know what you want before you do your first cut..mid stream changes can break the bank..botch the job or make a once nice car into a rolling heap ready for the cursher...no one want to see that happen. Think this out, look at your options and gather your parts before you start..

Edited August 19, 2011 by Tim Adams

[PatS....]

I also wound up with an old motorhome...76 Champion...with a low mile good running 440/727...$200

No specific plans right now. I gutted it but left the exterior alone replacing missing windows with black plexiglas, and curtains on the other windows. Makes a GREAT storage shed in the meantime and no complaints from the neighbors.

Starts and runs well but could use a carb rebuild...needs to warm up before I move it.

Can't buy a storage shed that big for $200

A project for the 440 will have to wait.

Pic from when I bought it.

Edited August 26, 2011 by PatS....

[yourpc48]

I do not recommend running a modern engine with a non pressurized system..not worth the trouble. Depends on the year of your engine at what temp it run along with what induction system you will be using..as stock out of the motor home..you can stay at 180 thermostat but I do recommend a sealed pressurized system. As for the drive train weight..it will be close enough not to sweat. Odds are the stock manifolds and oil pan will on the RV chassis are already center dump left and the oil pan is more than not 6 quart..be prepared to notch the front frame in a manner to allow fitting of the oil pump and filter...use a 90 degree adapter and short filter.. Think this out, look at your options and gather your parts before you start..

Thanks for the tips and your time Tim. If I have to do any cutting or welding I will go to friends house who has offered his shop with a concrete floor. He wants me to keep the flathead and I am still on the fence. Fortunatley I have experience in fabrication and built the frame and suspension for my 36 Ford PU and also chopped the top. You did answer my main questions about the radiator and rear. Also a helpful tip about the oil filter too. Thats a great tip.

This was a dunebuggy when I got it.

I do pay attention to what people have done and are willing to share with me to keep from having headaches later.

[wayfarer]

One item not mentioned is that some MH Torqueflites had an e-brake on the end of the tailshaft kinda like the old cars...it will be very bulky and usually does not fit into what ever space you have... You may need to source another big block trans.

.

[yourpc48]

One item not mentioned is that some MH Torqueflites had an e-brake on the end of the tailshaft kinda like the old cars...it will be very bulky and usually does not fit into what ever space you have... You may need to source another big block trans.

.

Thanks for mentioning that. I was not even thinking about that. All will be revealed soon as they are making good progress at tearing the body off of the thing. I soon will know whats what. I cant wait.

[dezeldoc]

Yes mine has a Volare front clip(i listened to a buddy and took out the stock but never again) so everything fits good, had to recess the firewall 3" though.

[yourpc48]

Well the guy finished taking the motorhome apart before I was ready and he started being a real butthead so I decided not to bother with a 440 for now and let him haul it off. The trans did have the brake on the tailshaft so I would have had to dig up a trans to go with the 440. The L Head has been treating me well so far so I will keep it for now. I still plan on changing the rear end and driveshaft so I can get the RPMs down on the car.

[Gary Manes]

Everyone always talks about putting in a V-8 of one kind or another, but I never see any serious discussion about intake or exhaust tubes placement.

My mechanic recommends a 350/350 combo (for cost, simplicity, and easy access to parts) There are many engines he likes better for other reasons, but for economy, etc. he likes the Chevy 350/350 combo with a pre-emisssions pickup throttle body which he says are bullet proof. The problem is getting exhaust headers because of the issues we are all familar with because the steering box is inside the frame instead of out.

Apparently, there are no specialists in Tulsa or in this area that he is aware of. He has found a company over in Arkansas that makes headers for race cars, but from converstations with them he gets a cost of around

$6,000.00. Which, of course, is more than the car is worth.

What have some of you done to work around this issue. Every time I have asked this question in the past I have never gotten so much as one comment. I know darn well some of you have 350/350's in your P-15/D-24's. What did you do about exhaust headers??

The 350/350 would not be my first choice either if money were no object. I know the 727 may have been the best automatic transmisssion ever built and there are some very nice MOPAR engines I would rather have. But, as many of you have found money is always an issue.

My 1948 Desoto coupe is all original, and except for the running gear I would like to keep it that way (maybe better brakes). So, please, someone share your experiences with headers.

[yourpc48]

Well I dont know about the SB Chevy motors but a friend of mine has a 49 or 50 with a 360 and automatic I can look into that for you and I do believe that most build threads I have seen here people have used the cast iron stock manifolds to manuver around the steering or they make / modify a header. The Chevy should be easy to do this with since I think the block is a little narrower. Also many of the builds have had a front clip put in Volare is one or a fatman clip but then your doing a lot of work and maybe a lot of money. To get around the steering box issue on a stock frame I have seen that people have put in rack and pinion type steering and I have also noticed that most of those are center steer racks. In other words the tie rods hook to the center of the rack. I cant remember what model car they are off of but a quick search in the forum should get you that info.

Hope that helps a little....

[kencombs]

If you want to stay mopar with the swap, use an LA series with the LH manifold from a 65-65 Dart with the 273. Should clear the steering. RH is easy, most any manifold will work. 'course you'll need a good exhaust shop to bent up the pipes, manifold to muffler.

[YukonJack]

Something else to consider would be using a right side manifold on the left side. This would move the outlet to the front thus not interfering with the steering box and allowing more room for the pipe. Ford did something similiar to this on the Y blocks in the 50's but the left pipe crossed over on the front of the engine.

[hkestes41]

My mechanic recommends a 350/350 combo (for cost, simplicity, and easy access to parts)

Why is it that everyone is so convinced the 350 is cheaper and easier to get parts for than the 360? You already pointed out that the 727 is a better transmission.

Checked pricing at salvage yards across the country for this comparrison tried to use the same yard or area and similar miles.

360

17,384 miles - $500 - SC

61,000 miles - $350 - GA

83,000 miles - $600 - MI

0 miles - $1722 - IA - 3 Yr 100K warranty

0 miles - $1450 - Toronro - 3 Yr warranty

350

28,459 miles - $650 - SC

68,917 miles - $500 - SC

85,000 miles - $500 - MI

0 miles - $1638 - IA - 3 Yr 100K warranty

0 miles - $1418 - Toronto - 3 Yr warranty

Yes Billet bling for street rods is much more readily available for the 350 if you want to look like everyone else but standard everyday parts for the 360 are carried by NAPA, Oreilly, Autozone, etc just as they are for the 350.

Factory HP ratings

360 ranged from 175 - 250 at 345 Lb-Ft torque using a 4.0 bore and 3.58 stroke.

350 ranged from 145 - 370 (in Corvette) 360 Lb-Ft torque using a 4.0 bore and 3.48 stroke.

Chrysler has always been conservative on their factory HP ratings. For instance if you look at the NHRA Super Stock HP ratings for a 1975 model year (choosen at random) you will see that the NHRA rated the 350 at 155 HP and the 360 at 230 HP. 1980 model year the NHRA rated the 350 at 190 HP and the 360 at 210 HP. 1985 model year the NHRA rated the 350 at 105 HP and the 360 at 180 HP.

Edited August 26, 2011 by hkestes41