p24-1953 Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) i have posted on a few places but havnt really got a clear answer so i will try here, hope you guys dont mind.... on my dialy driven 62 impala (w/ a stock 327/300) i just installed a vintage air unit. The current set up is a 3 core stock radiator and shroud, which is about 8" deep, and a mechanical fan that is located 1/2 in 1/2 out of the shroud. prior to the a/c install i was running 185-195deg on the freeway depending on the outside temps and sitting in traffic i ran 195-200 typically, but would cool back down as soon as i started moving. now that i have installed the a/c and condensor. when i go for a drive this is what happens. This is from a test drive yesterday it starts out good warming up to 180-185 and hold this temp for a good 30 mins of spirited driving w a/c it was mostly back roads so there were 3 or 4 stops but mostly 50+. (outside temp 100+deg) (for tim it was down 247 towards warner robins) once i got into town i stoped by the bank and sat in the drive thru the temps rose to the 200-210 mark as i started to move again the droped a little but stayed constant at 200+. this was in stop and go traffic w/ the a/c on, few lights no more that 30 mph. but the temp didnt increase while driving. stoped and ran into day care and picked the kiddo up came out and the car was in the 220-230 range right after start up. i hoped on the freeway 50+ and came home and the temp never went below 220.with a/c off or on it didnt matter. it seems like the car can keep a constant temp while driving or minor sitting but dosent have the ability to bring the temp down once it increases. is this caused by a inadaquite capcity (radiator to small) or blockage (due to the new a/c condensor) or indaquite airflow ? the stock fan and shroud are deep and i could actually install a 18" puller fan inside the shroud but my question is would it block to much airflow from the mechanical fan?(which i plan on keeping) would it be better to install it as a pusher from the front? thanks for the help..... Edited June 10, 2011 by p24-1953 poor grammer and spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 In my limited experience the cars I've had with factory air came with a heavier duty radiator and the engine kept at a reasonable temperature. And the cars I've had with aftermarket air and the standard factory radiator had cooling problems. Seems like the heavier duty radiator is put on factory AC cars for a reason and maybe you should look to upgrading your radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) Like Tod, I would have to think that the capacity of the system may be a bit light ... Given the age of the radiator and such and not knowing the actual GPM flow..you may be just at border line cooling and the AC is putting it over the top..and once heated it does not have the ability to cool quickly...the temp rise when you went to get the kid from day care is normal for all cars..this is is heat saturation due to the block still hot and no water flow..however yes, it should cool quickly when restarted..by not doing so indicates your ciruclation may be restricted... sweet thing is that Summit should have a super nice all aluminum radiator that will fit right into your car without problem...these are extremely affordable might I add..and you can do a quick 40 mile trip up I-75 and pick it up..your fan I would think should fit just inside the shroud..(as in the center of the pitch of the blade).. you may want to do a search on the Chev website for those cars that came with factory AC and check to see if GM installed either a heavier pitch blade or added a blade or two to the count or even maybe placed an asyemtrical blade in place..the asymetrical style blades are really superior to anything else out there both in air flow and HP.. You did not mention but I am assuming yo have a 180 degree thermostat...this is needed...do not run without one..it not only helps to get your car to proper op temp..it also regualtes the proper circulation of coolant through the block to ensure proper heat transfer from the engine to the water..so it can be effectively exchanged at the radiator.. Edited June 10, 2011 by Tim Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Neon Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 I read some where on this forum that installing AC will make the car run cooler... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Captain it all depends which side of the fire wall you install the vents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Can you post a picture of the car? I'd like to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 id love to.... heck we will even make it plymouth related..... here are both in a car show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Wow, is all I can say. If I found one like it, that would be my next project car, hands down. I love the era, the style, everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Wow, is all I can say. If I found one like it, that would be my next project car, hands down. I love the era, the style, everything. Joe I can't comment on the styling but everything I've seen about handling says you'd be much better off with a similar vintage mopar. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first or last time someone bought a inferior car just because it looked better though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Joe I can't comment on the styling but everything I've seen about handling says you'd be much better off with a similar vintage mopar. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first or last time someone bought a inferior car just because it looked better though. My father has an aversion to old cars but couldn't afford a new one when I was young. The first new car he was able to purchase was a 61 Valiant. An okay car but it quickly became too small for a family with three pre-teens. So in 63 we got a 63 Belvedere Suburban (last year they were called "suburbans", in 64 the literature calls them station wagons). 318 V8 with factory air but with non-power brakes, non-power steering and "three on the tree". That car cured dad of wanting a new car for a long, long time. That is the car I learned to drive on and it handled very well. After a while we got a used 61 or 62 Ford for Dad's daily commute. That car was a tank, hard to steer, lots of pedal pressure needed on the brakes, etc. The Plymouth was a lot better driving car. Can't say too much about how that would stack up against a Chevy of the same era as I've never driven one, but I do remember that the 63 wagon was an easy car to drive and that it handled well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKB Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Joe I can't comment on the styling but everything I've seen about handling says you'd be much better off with a similar vintage mopar. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first or last time someone bought a inferior car just because it looked better though. I have a friend in the car club I belong to who has a '62 Chevrolet 2-door hardtop . It has a six cylinder with a three on the tree standard transmission and came from the factory that way. The car had about 80,000 miles (engine never apart) on it when he took it across Canada and back in 2000 pulling a small trailer. He put 10,000 miles on the car that summer without any major issues. I actually like the Fords from the early 60's and have owned a '63 Fairlane since 1979. It is pretty much a survivor except for a repaint years ago. It has 98,000+ miles (never apart) and I plan on driving it to Spokane late this month for a car show probably putting on at least a 1000 miles. I think all the cars back then were pretty good but personally I think the Mopars were the least attractive of the lot. Maybe mechanicallly as good or better but not real lookers. Just my two cents worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 This is the one I've had experience with. 28K miles when Dad bought it with a 318 auto. I think its up to maybe 35K now. I like the 64s and 62s. The 63s and 61s not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) Joe I can't comment on the styling but everything I've seen about handling says you'd be much better off with a similar vintage mopar. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first or last time someone bought a inferior car just because it looked better though. There is a night and day difference between the two. not saying either is bad just different. The plymouth runs smooth and quite... handle like its a big bouncy cloud, smooth riding lots of waves and thumbs up. With the overdrive cruises great at 70 but feels most at home at 50 on a back road, no high speed corners, no sudden stops. your up high seated upright looking out on everything. the impala, open the door slide in to the low back seat turn the key and listen the throaty rumble. it is a great highway cruiser, tons of room, great power. REALLY sensitive steering. just a minor correction on the wheel is a lane change at 70. thats good when you in the city, but at 70.... tons of people wanting to stop and look, not a good car if you dont want attention. only because i have had the plymouth for so long would i say it would be my favorite. the plymouth has been with me sine i was 15. (took my first date out in it) Edited June 10, 2011 by p24-1953 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 I have never driven a Ford or Chevy of that era (at least that I recall. Some of the 1970s were a little hazy for me). I agree that the styling is better than Mopars of that time. They tended to be kind of dowdy and old lady-like. My first car was a 1974 Dodge Dart Swinger that I absolutely loved. But I caught a lot of grief about the way it looked, not to mention the name, "Swinger." I've said on this forum before that I really want to get a Falcon as a project car. Maybe in a few years when I'm retired and I have a bigger garage. Then again, I could easily be persuaded to take on a Valiant or a Dart from the early-mid 60s. As it turns out, tomorrow I'm going to a boneyard that has quite a lot of Mopars from that era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 I have never driven a Ford or Chevy of that era (at least that I recall. Some of the 1970s were a little hazy for me). I agree that the styling is better than Mopars of that time. They tended to be kind of dowdy and old lady-like. My first car was a 1974 Dodge Dart Swinger that I absolutely loved. But I caught a lot of grief about the way it looked, not to mention the name, "Swinger." I've said on this forum before that I really want to get a Falcon as a project car. Maybe in a few years when I'm retired and I have a bigger garage. Then again, I could easily be persuaded to take on a Valiant or a Dart from the early-mid 60s. As it turns out, tomorrow I'm going to a boneyard that has quite a lot of Mopars from that era. Joe I love it! I grew up with a 60 Falcon 2dr around the place. A little later a 62 was also around for a while. I'm kinda on the lookout for a 60-63 wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 I have a long way to go before I can EVEN consider thinking about maybe hinting, in a very general way, to my wife, that I get another car. A LONG way to go. But I'm working on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labrauer Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 I would say have the radiator cleaned and if you have done that then I would go with a larger one. It sounds like it is running pretty hot so check the radiator first and then I would make sure the timing is set where it is suppost to be that can make it run hot. If you have extra cooling fans on it it should make a lot of difference in running temp. Make sure that the cooling fans are running in the right direction of course. Hope this will solve the problems on the temp, Larry Brauer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 I have a long way to go before I can EVEN consider thinking about maybe hinting, in a very general way, to my wife, that I get another car. A LONG way to go. But I'm working on it. Joe; If it would help I can call your wife and explain how it works. I will do so if you think it will help:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted June 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 well i switched out the el- cheap-o flex fan with a 7 blade non sysmetrical metal one tonight, and while doing it i noticed that the vacuum advance to the distributor was disconected. the inital idle is set at 8 deg tdc when the vacuum is disconected. so iguess i have been running around all week with the timing off. that might have helped make the problem worse... correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Flanagan Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Joe;If it would help I can call your wife and explain how it works. I will do so if you think it will help:rolleyes: You're more than welcome to give it a try. But I have to warn you, she has this annoying quality called, "practicality." She's got another one called, "realistic." She uses something called, "reason" to figure things out. Sometimes I just don't get her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) well i switched out the el- cheap-o flex fan with a 7 blade non sysmetrical metal one tonight, and while doing it i noticed that the vacuum advance to the distributor was disconected. the inital idle is set at 8 deg tdc when the vacuum is disconected. so iguess i have been running around all week with the timing off. that might have helped make the problem worse... correct? the vacuum line..this will not be attributed to your problem..the lack of vacuum on the distributor only means that you will not pull the extra timiming advance that the engine runs at while under light load...thus the economy mode..however..if your base/static timing is correct..connecting this should increase your MPG at substained highway speeds.. I personally feel the changing of the flex fan will be the better deal..flex fans are notorious for flattening out at speed..this flattening out will actually block air flow through the radiator..in most cases it generates a HOT in the radiator centered to the position of the fan..flex fans are usually light weight aluminum and painted/coated in a very nice color or scheme..this is usually the only COOL factor they contribute.. Edited June 11, 2011 by Tim Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted June 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 update ....well im not going to jinx it by saying problem solved, but after replacing the el-cheapo- flex fan with a 7 blade fan the same trip i took last friday where i ended up with 220+ temps i ran today and ended up with 195 deg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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