#&*-@*!!*# rear brakes

[ggdad1951]

ok, 6 man hours on the rears tonight and STILL leaks.

Front piston seems to want to hang up, pushing the rear out where it leaks. We did this with BOTH rears and they BOTH are doing it. Fronts are superstars and no leaks still!

here is the set up.

fresh, new return springs

new cylinders (bought a year ago and installed)

cleaned everything

put it back together (small piston forward, large rear)

didn't put on the hubs to see if it would work (less work to take hubs off again)

bled pass side then drivers

no leaks at first but then both rear pistons leaked

ANY insights?

ANY help?

I am literally at wits end!

[Dave72dt]

With nothing there to stop the shoes from coming out too far, you probably just pushed them past there limits, again. You'll have to hold the shoes from moving out if you want to bleed them that way.

[Guest P15-D24]

Do an initial shoe adjustment, then bled. Thea will keep them from extending out too far.

[moparmonkey]

If the drums aren't on, is it possible that you're overextending the pistons and causing the leak?

[austinsailor]

what is going on with the fronts has nothing to do with the back.

if I understand, you are bleeding with the drums off? if so, they are going to go out until the cups go too far and the fluid spews out. You MUST have the drums on.

you really need to have them adjusted before bleeding.

You could slide the drums on and not tighten the nut, just snug it if you are insistant on removing it again. you really should do the major adjustment (bottom), put the drum on, then do the minor adjustment (cams on top) then bleed.

[ggdad1951]

Doh doh doh doh doh TOTALLY FORGOT about the upper cams boy do I feel royally stupid, had the bottoms adjusted, just not the tops.

Edited May 18, 2011 by ggdad1951

[ggdad1951]

spent lots of time last night putting hubs on and off setting the shoes. If that doesn't work I don't know what's going on. The small bore side piston seal still seems to want to hang up in the bore regardless of side. I'm hoping the brake fluid has enough oomph to move it, as the internal spring doesn't push it out when the shoe is moved away from the piston. The new return springs are quite hardy...I about strained my milk getting those off, but I'm getting dang good at putting them back on.

Edited May 19, 2011 by ggdad1951

[Young Ed]

You do have one of the brake return spring tools right?? I wouldn't worry about the little spring on the cylinder not moving the pistons by itself.

[austinsailor]

The spring in the cylinder isn't to push the pistons out - the fluid does that. They just keep the rubbers against the pistons.

[ggdad1951]

You do have one of the brake return spring tools right?? I wouldn't worry about the little spring on the cylinder not moving the pistons by itself.

you mean a vice grips and a long T handle allen wrench?

[Young Ed]

you mean a vice grips and a long T handle allen wrench?

um NO there is actually a tool for those springs.

[ggdad1951]

um NO there is actually a tool for those springs.

well that's what I had! HOPEFULLY I'll never have to take them off again!

[TodFitch]

... The new return springs are quite hardy...I about strained my milk getting those off ....

If you don't have the specialty tool, looping a piece of strong cord or wire under where the spring hooks into the shoe and pulling works pretty good.

You do have one of the brake return spring tools right??

The tool does a pretty good job too and is available at pretty near any auto supply store.

[Young Ed]

If you don't have the specialty tool, looping a piece of strong cord or wire under where the spring hooks into the shoe and pulling works pretty good.

The tool does a pretty good job too and is available at pretty near any auto supply store.

Yup but I don't like poking a hole in my new shoes so I use it with a piece of wood to push against. It makes it a little more clumsy but it still works good.

[ggdad1951]

wow, what a difference that made! Rears are all happy now, all because the shoes couldn't push in to far! I guess not seeing the forest for the trees was a huge issue.

Only issue now is the drivers front seems to not want to seal up to the hose.

[4852dodge]

Did you put the copper washer on the hose before installing it in the cylinder?

[ggdad1951]

Did you put the copper washer on the hose before installing it in the cylinder?

that's not the issue, the flare at the hose that goes the hard line, snugged it tighter and seems to be not leaking now. X-ing fingers this step in the process is done.

[ggdad1951]

passenger rear is still weeping out of the drum....after sitting for two days, got a little run down the tire now out of the drum....I think I'm gonna replace that cylinder and see if that is the issue after all...any other advice? The shoes are adjusted as good as I can get with the drums as thin as they are.

Also any hints on the flare fittings, I don't want to crush them TOO far, but the one just doesn't want to seal up,...sloooooooow leak on it and it is as snug as snug can be....

[moparmonkey]

passenger rear is still weeping out of the drum....after sitting for two days, got a little run down the tire now out of the drum....I think I'm gonna replace that cylinder and see if that is the issue after all...any other advice? The shoes are adjusted as good as I can get with the drums as thin as they are.

Also any hints on the flare fittings, I don't want to crush them TOO far, but the one just doesn't want to seal up,...sloooooooow leak on it and it is as snug as snug can be....

You mention the drums being thin- if they're truly out of spec, it may not be the wheel cylinder actually causing the problem. Sure, the cylinder is leaking, but if its overextended that's not the wheel cylinders fault. It may be that the drums are too thin for the wheel cylinder to maintain the proper seal. It could be the wheel cylinder too, but if the next one leaks, you may need to find a thicker drum.

As far as the flare, if the flare itself is less than perfect it may not seal at all.Try loosening the fitting a bit and then tightening it back down, there may be a bit of crud or a metal shaving in there that needs to work itself out. Otherwise, "snug" should be enough. But, I have tightened flares down as tight as I could make them before they sealed. That's well beyond "snug", I'm talking as much as the fitting will take before the edges round off the hex head. It's not "proper", but I've done it when I was learning how to flare lines myself. Let's just say not all of them were perfect. But most of them did seal, some just took a little more help than others.

[Dennis_MN]

If your front drums are too thin, I have a set of brake parts after I converted to disks on the front. Let me know because I'm just up in Monticello.

You can have the whole bucket except for the left and right hand studs.

[ggdad1951]

If your front drums are too thin, I have a set of brake parts after I converted to disks on the front. Let me know because I'm just up in Monticello.

You can have the whole bucket except for the left and right hand studs.

fronts have yet to leak, but I may just see about them JIC. PM me with any details.

You mention the drums being thin- if they're truly out of spec, it may not be the wheel cylinder actually causing the problem. Sure, the cylinder is leaking, but if its overextended that's not the wheel cylinders fault. It may be that the drums are too thin for the wheel cylinder to maintain the proper seal. It could be the wheel cylinder too, but if the next one leaks, you may need to find a thicker drum.

As far as the flare, if the flare itself is less than perfect it may not seal at all.Try loosening the fitting a bit and then tightening it back down, there may be a bit of crud or a metal shaving in there that needs to work itself out. Otherwise, "snug" should be enough. But, I have tightened flares down as tight as I could make them before they sealed. That's well beyond "snug", I'm talking as much as the fitting will take before the edges round off the hex head. It's not "proper", but I've done it when I was learning how to flare lines myself. Let's just say not all of them were perfect. But most of them did seal, some just took a little more help than others.

well the bottom cam is all the way out and the tops are about 1/4 of the way out from being all the way in, I'd think that if the cams were all the way out and it'd leak and be an issue, but only 1/4? I have YET to find ANY drums ANYWHERE for this beast, what are my options? is it possible to put a disc system on and hide it so it looks like drums?

I'll loosen and retighten the flare fittings tonight and see how they fare tomorrow after a 24 hour "sit". I rented the special tool from FedHill for the flares and they were so easy to do, it'd be odd that only 2 of the whole pile would be bad flares, possible, but these were some of the last ones I did, so I'd hope I had it figured by then!

Edited May 23, 2011 by ggdad1951

[ggdad1951]

may have just found a source for drums! I'll advise back for those others out there in my same shoes what my fact finding trip this weekend finds out. Sadly it may make me pass on some currently planned purchases with limited funds at the moment.

[Dennis_MN]

Here are the photos of the measurements of the brake Drums and backing plates. As you can see, the 1/2 ton used 10inch brakes.

These are available if you want them. These are the parts left over after I converted the fronts to disk brakes.

Dennis Sullivan

Monticello, MN

[Dodgeb4ya]

He's got a 1 ton D series-11" front drums with 6 bolt studs and 14" rear 6 stud drums. Hub stud size was 9/16" up to around 1950 and was sized up to 5/8" I think in 1951. I too have never found any NOS rear drums either-tough parts to find.

Bob

[ggdad1951]

He's got a 1 ton D series-11" front drums with 6 bolt studs and 14" rear 6 stud drums. Hub stud size was 9/16" up to around 1950 and was sized up to 5/8" I think in 1951. I too have never found any NOS rear drums either-tough parts to find.

Bob

I think Dennis was offering those up to anyone, I've already passed on them. I'm going to a super secret squirrel place this weekend to look at 14" drums....hopefully find something that'll work for me! And then of course tell everyone else about it.