Aftermarket heads

[INJUNTOM]

Who has them and how "around" are they? Pics?

Eventually I'd like to put one on our '47

[bamfordsgarage]

I'm running the original (rebuilt) 6-volt generator on my 1947 D25 Canadian Dodge. The car is driven a lot — never ran short of electricity even with auxiliary lighting, heater, radio, etc. Six-volt system performance is very sensitive to poor connections, grounds, corrosion, etc.

[deathbound]

  bamfordsgarage said:

I'm running the original (rebuilt) 6-volt generator on my 1947 D25 Canadian Dodge. The car is driven a lot — never ran short of electricity even with auxiliary lighting, heater, radio, etc. Six-volt system performance is very sensitive to poor connections, grounds, corrosion, etc.

I think he's asking about heads.

Edgy makes them, don't know much about them though.

[bamfordsgarage]

Indeed. That was supposed to be posted to the Generators/Alternators thread. Oops.

[hkestes41]

Here is an email response I received from Earl back in September just before ordering my new head.

  Quote

Heads are $725 plus S&H. I require a a$360 deposit to place an order with the foundry. Delivery is 12-16 weeks after I recieve your deposit. Balance due opon shipping. personal checks work fine. thanks Earl

[INJUNTOM]

As long as this engine was used and as many that were built, I'd have thought vintage performance parts would be around...

[55 Fargo]

  hkestes41 said:

Here is an email response I received from Earl back in September just before ordering my new head.

Earl Edgerton, is the King of Modern Performance Parts for Mopar L head 6s.

His items are made to order, they are custom built using his equipment,molds, and experience, Earl is a young guy but knows a lot about these engines, and a lot about foundry work to create items for these engines......

[james curl]

They still come up on E Bay, you can buy a new head from Earl cheaper than an old warped head with Heli-coils in the plug holes from a vendor on E Bay. Some of the old heads go for over $1200.00 which is absurd.

[Frank Elder]

They look pretty, take your iron head down to the machinist, have it shaved for more compression, buy a new gasket and install.......It will give you the same performance at way less than a "pretty" head.

Also you wont have to worry about warping the head, stripping the sparkplug threads, or the inherent porousity problems of aluminum.

To me it is like buying a chrome valve cover for a 318, it looks good but really isn't doing anything for the engine.

[Big_John]

Actually, with everything else the same, you'll make more power with a cast iron head.

[hkestes41]

  FRANKIE47 said:

They look pretty, take your iron head down to the machinist, have it shaved for more compression, buy a new gasket and install.......It will give you the same performance at way less than a "pretty" head.

Also you wont have to worry about warping the head, stripping the sparkplug threads, or the inherent porousity problems of aluminum.

To me it is like buying a chrome valve cover for a 318, it looks good but really isn't doing anything for the engine.

Actually with the higher heat transfer rate of Aluminum along with the cast in fins, your engine will run cooler with the aluminum head which will let you run a little more initial timing without fear of detonation, thereby increasing performance. That is not to mention the reduction in weight which also increases performance although minimally.

[Tim Keith]

The heat transfer of the alloy head can reduce hot and cold spots compared to iron. I think the coolant capacity in the OEM iron heads might be insufficient to cool a hot rodded flathead motor, but have nothing other than hearsay to make judgements one way or the other. A new chamber shape that promoted greater quench is a topic of debate. The common Briggs and Stratton L-heads might be the best platform for research.

Apparently last series of the B&S flathead has an advanced chamber design that might be worth looking at

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/2480/small_engines__high_performance.aspx

[Frank Elder]

  hkestes41 said:

Actually with the higher heat transfer rate of Aluminum along with the cast in fins, your engine will run cooler with the aluminum head which will let you run a little more initial timing without fear of detonation, thereby increasing performance. That is not to mention the reduction in weight which also increases performance although minimally.

I get what you are saying, but I don't see the point in worrying about heat when one of these motors no matter how hotrodded it is will ever make any serious HP.

Quite honestly 200 hp is unachieveable without blowing or a turbo and even then you would probably twist the con rods.

Before anybody gets hot under the collar....a 125 to 150 hp in these cars can be and is a fun time, you just don't need an aluminum head to do it.

If a person want's one, buy one. My opinion certainly won't stand in your way.

[Tim Keith]

An Indian research named Somender Singh was published in the Popular Mechanics a few years ago, claiming that his research on Briggs and Stratton L-heads proves a 20 percent increase in fuel efficiency and performance increases. I have not heard from him since then. His basic concept is that grooves cut in the combustion chamber can increase turbulence. His ideas were not taken seriously by manufacturers. Increasing turbulence is still the right goal, probably not so simply obtained as Mr Singh hoped. Computer simulations are capable of modeling of combustion at the molecular level. Manufactured designs have been based upon intuition and practical results without knowing what really happens at the molecular level.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the grooves would quickly carbon up rendering them useless and if your compression is high enough contribute to detonation..for the street and the occassional grudge run or bracket racing..your cast iron products are even recommended to be retained by mother mopar..they will run more consistent because of the better ability to remain a constant temperature..thus consistent performance level

[Andydodge]

Heres a pic of the Edgy head that Earl Edgerton makes for both the 23 & 25 inch engines, this is on my mocked up 230.......hopefully this will get around 150/160 hp......the highest the factory 230's got was 140hp in 1958/59 when they had a twin barrel carby & 8:1 compression.......the Edgy head is suppose to be 9.0:1 so with the extra squeeze, carbys,split exhaust,balance & me leaning forward who knows what it will make...........lol...............andyd

[1937 Dodge]

Anyone know what Edmunds published as the compression ratio(s) of their 23 and 25 inch heads?

I read an article on the Edmunds site that said 8.5:1

Thanks

Edited January 2, 2011 by 1937 Dodge
Additional information

[Tim Keith]

What does the chamber of the Edgy head look like ? Today I looked at a Briggs and Stratton head and saw that this lawn mower motor has a heart shaped combustion chamber. In recent years the EPA has been giving B&S fits, the company did lots of engineering on their classic L-head. Any design the reduced emissions would also have increased turbulence. With a CNC mill and software I think B&S engineers could have evaluated hundreds of chamber designs as the cost would likley be minimal for their one cylinder motors.

The Edgy looks pretty on the its top, but I'd like to know what it really does better than the OEM iron head.

[moose]

  1937 Dodge said:

Anyone know what Edmunds published as the compression ratio(s) of their 23 and 25 inch heads?

I read an article on the Edmunds site that said 8.5:1

Thanks

Before I first ran my Edmunds(on a 23" 230), I did a test of the volume, and through the formulas I got approximately 9:1. The last time I checked it had been milled a bit. So 8.5:1 sounds about right.

[greg g]

here is a pic of a chamber on an Edmunds head. I got it used from a guy who got it used from a guy... so I have no idea if its as purchased or has been nodified. The casting was very porous, so it was not useable.

Someone suggested that it would be benificial to bull nose the edge of the of the ramp from the valves to the area over the piston to make a smoother transition for both intake and exhaust charges.

But here is the chamber shape

Edited January 3, 2011 by greg g

[Aussie D25]

  Andydodge said:

Heres a pic of the Edgy head that Earl Edgerton makes for both the 23 & 25 inch engines, this is on my mocked up 230.......hopefully this will get around 150/160 hp......the highest the factory 230's got was 140hp in 1958/59 when they had a twin barrel carby & 8:1 compression.......the Edgy head is suppose to be 9.0:1 so with the extra squeeze, carbys,split exhaust,balance & me leaning forward who knows what it will make...........lol...............andyd

That thing looked the same the last time I was there ... no excuses !!!! get it done and get it in !

[Tim Keith]

Thanks for posting the Edmunds head. It does not look like there would be much quench with that design.

This is a Briggs & Stratton head with heart shaped chambers:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb93/satmoj/head.jpg

This one was milled from billet

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p209/kornpoke/Kart%20Engines/clementshead.jpg

A heart shape with angle plug :

http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv291/halbertmotorsports/IMG_1198.jpg

I do not think these heads are for a gasoline motor, looks to me that the compression would be very high. Interesting differences in each.

[greg g]

I have seen some heads similar used for microd, go cart, and or 1/4 midget racing classes. Some engines that started at 6 HP end up making 25, but I think they run on a fule blend of some type.

Plus they don't run for more than 10 or 15 minutes or so for each race.

[hkestes41]

Here is the chamber design of the Edgy head I snatched from Blueskies site.