Ammco brake gauge

[Plymouthy Adams]

I am not sure of the item actually selling that high..only scenario I can think of for that unrealistic price is that the "repair shop" told the owner they needed it to do his restoration and has privilidged the "unlimited" account for his own personal gain..

[Gary Manes]

Most relevant comments have already been made. The only problem with not have one in todays market is that too many of the new young owners of shops do not have a clue as to how to adjust these brakes.

I have been so blessed to have a young mechanic who knows or will figure out how to fix just about anything you can throw at him. We had disucssed the issues on my New Yorker long before he dived into see if he could do it without the tool. (I have one now which I got a much better price than that $300.00 average.)

He manged to get it set so close to perfect, we were both shocked at how well they work. There is a very slight pull on the passenger side front wheel when you are slowing down when driving slowly. If you are going at a good clip it does not pull at all. We both decided it was so minor that we would leave it alone unless it worsened for some reason.

So far, I have been happy with the way they respond. One thing that may have saved us some grief was that the hubs had never been turned. That has got to be rare in one of these cars.

[HanksB3B]

Really, this is sickening...with all the talent on our board you'd think we'd all get together and solve this problem. This is a simple device the function of which is about as complicated as a grade school compass. I know that some pvc pipe and even 2x4 wood versions were fabricated but how difficult would it really be to make one out of dimensional steel machined parts. Since it's no longer being manufactured wouldn't it be possible to get the parts drawings?

Hank

[Tom Skinner]

Well if that Ammco Company still exists out there it would behoove them to start making this tool again and selling it to us at a decent price.

Or as Hank just said, if, thats a big if, someone on our forum could or would make a version of this tool for a fair price they would sell every one of them.

Tom

[HanksB3B]

Well if that Ammco Company still exists out there it would behoove them to start making this tool again and selling it to us at a decent price.

Or as Hank just said, if, thats a big if, someone on our forum could or would make a version of this tool for a fair price they would sell every one of them.

Tom

I think that someone could probably make some extra money. The tool could easily be reverse engineered drawn up in AutoDesk Inventor or ProEngineer, pathed to a CNC machine without even getting their hands dirty.

I know an acquaintance of mine (whos Dad used to work for Chrysler) is a VP of R&D at Mazda and is currently restoring a Pilothouse Truck has the knowledge and possible access to this type of technology. Where I live in Torrance there's tons of machine shops geared for the aerospace and automotive industry.

I personally don't know enough to pull this off without some help and encouragement, but would be willing. The first step is to have measurements to produce 2D drawings that would then be made into 3D. There are digitizing tools out there that can create a dimensional mesh (as if you threw a fine net over the tool and could measure each intersection of the net as it laid over the part).

Hank

[Frank Elder]

Maybe this is stupid, or really stupid, couldn't a fella use 2 heims and some all thread to make one of these???

Edited December 24, 2010 by FRANKIE47

[blueskies]

Pete, you just needed to talk it up a little:)

Why would anyone pay $889 for one when they can get one with "buy it now" for $685:eek: These guys know how to strike when the iron is hot.

That should get sold faster than Ke$ha's sold-out Pageant concert:D

I think the real question is why would anyone spend $889 for a tool to adjust poorly designed $300 dollar brake shoes when you can replace them with a disc brake kit for less than half that price...

Pete

[Andydodge]

Pete.......nice to hear from you......lol........and you could not have put it better.......1940's drum brakes can be rebuilt, adjusted, adjusted again, and with all brand new perfect parts you willl end up with..............1940's drum brakes, which to be honest stop as well as, well.........1940's Drum brakes could be expected to stop..........I have the stock drums on the 41 Pymouth coupe & 4 wheel vented disc brakes on the 1940 Dodge sedan.........lol..........anyone want to guess which stops the best, which gives a feeling of more security, safety and stopability................lol..............nope.........it ain't the 1940's drum brakes..........but that will change eventually as the Plymouth will get discs..........till then I drive it like a 1940's car...........regards, andyd

[HanksB3B]

Maybe this is stupid, or really stupid, couldn't a fella use 2 hiems and some all thread to make one of these???

More than likely yes. There's been a few home-made versions of this tool I've seen. This would be a good place for anyone to contribute pics if they either have made one or saved an image of one.

I like blueskies take on the whole topic:

"I think the real question is why would anyone spend $889 for a tool to adjust poorly designed $300 dollar brake shoes when you can replace them with a disc brake kit for less than half that price..."

So true for someone like me who wants to replace my 4.10 stock differential on my truck with either a 3.73 or 3.54. I wouldn't want to get on a Fwy or Hwy if my truck couldn't cruise at least a min of 65 mph @ 2100-2500 rpm and if I was going that fast I would want better stopping power.

For now, I drive my truck like it was back in the 50's. I can get just about anywhere. I routinely plan trips by Google maps and choose the "Avoid Highways" option but I am jealous of my P15-D24 friends that can cruise the Freeways.

Merry Christmas to all you car guys,

Hank

[Gary Manes]

This is absurd. I got mine for $175.00 in the middle of when they first started going for $300.00. Have not used it once yet.

The hubs on my New Yorker had never been turned, so my young mechanic (a genius at fixing anything) was able to adjust the brakes almost perfectly without it.

I have a slight pull on the passenger front at slow speeds, but when going over 40 it pulls nice and straight. We decided unless something changed to leave well enough alone.

I still have the '48 Desosto to go yet, may need it then. This time we'll probably put discs up front.

The older guys never used the tool, and still got then set right every time. I had a 1957 Plymouth, so I know. It is just these younger guys that don't have a clue.

[55 Fargo]

Not everyone wants there P15,D24, or C38 with upgraded modern disc brakes, for varied reasons, some want there cars bone stock, others do not want to lay out the cash for the upgrade, if there stock brakes are in good form.

I would like at some point to convert to front disc for some of the obvious reasons.

I do however emphatically believe the stock brakes, to be very good, when in good condition, and adjusted well.

I do not subscribe to generalization, that stock Lockheed brake systmes are just $hit, and everyone should convert to modern drum and disc on there cars.

I do however supposrt the fact the modern upgraded brakes are superior, no-brainer there, how much superior per case, I do not have a clue.

I can see the reasons to upgrade, higher speeds, heavier traffic, peace of mind, hilly terrain, and many other modern traffic reaons, there again, some drive there cars daily, some are more Sunday or show cars, or unmoletested Originals.....Fred

[blueskies]

The older guys never used the tool, and still got then set right every time. I had a 1957 Plymouth, so I know. It is just these younger guys that don't have a clue.

I agree that the prices are absurd, but I respectfully disagree with you that you can set these brakes without the tool or at least a home made version of it. I used the tool to set up my brakes, and I don't think there is any way to know if you "got it right" unless you drive the car for a time and then take the drums back off to look at the wear pattern on the shoes.

The only thing you can tell by adjusting them "by feel" is if a shoe is dragging inside the drum. You can not tell if it is the heel or the toe, or the the edge of the shoe, or the whole shoe, because when the drum is in place you can't see the shoes.

Even with the tool, I had to do several rounds of adjusting the major and minor adjustments to get the shoes centered, because the minor adjustment affects the major, and vice-versa.

I hear all the time how lousy these brakes are, and at the same time how absurd it is that anyone needs a brake gauge to set them up. Once I had my brakes correctly adjusted with the tool, I drove my '50 all over the country through every imaginable road condition and never felt the brakes were unsafe or lacking. Sure they don't have the stopping power of discs, but they work very good all things considered. At least when they are adjusted so that the entire shoe makes contact with the drum. And the only way to tell if that is the case is with a gauge.

Pete

[old rat 49]

Couldn't you use an old brake drum with a couple of holes in it and a feeler guage to set them ? Seems to me that would work.

[Tom Skinner]

Truth be told I have done Brake jobs on a couple of 1948 Chryslers several times over in the past 36 years and never used the tool and "eye balled it" every time and never had a bit of trouble. So the question begs - who the hell needs one of these tools???????

Tom

Huntersville, NC

[55 Fargo]

Truth be told I have done Brake jobs on a couple of 1948 Chryslers several times over in the past 36 years and never used the tool and "eye balled it" every time and never had a bit of trouble. So the question begs - who the hell needs one of these tools???????

Tom

Huntersville, NC

I think the Lockheed brakes get a bad rap, but as you stated even these brakes adjusted by feel, with the major adjusters dialed in close, followed by the minor adjustments, they can be pretty darn decent brakes.

Now after some miles, if you have serious uneven wear on the shoes, then better adjusting will be necessary.

I have had it explained very Learned forum member who has been working on old Mopars for 40 years, he also owns the brake adjuster tools, but often does not use them, unless the brake drums are maxed out, and it really becomes necessary to get things tight.

I believe this particular Member to possibly be the most informed authority on these brake systems, I have followed his directions and advice for my brakes, so far so good..........Fred

[Roadkingcoupe]

Just ended.....$889.00.....must be gold plated model.

Checked in the Miller tool Catalogue CX-708 and found the Miller brake gauge (looks identical to the Ammco).

Original price as sold to the dealership.

$57.05

Not cheap back then.

Wonder what $57.05 in 1948 is equivalent in 2010 dollars?

For a larger picture "click" on the enlarged thumbnail and then use "control Ctrl" and + for further enlarging.

[kbuhagiar]

$57.05

Not cheap back then.

Wonder what $57.05 in 1948 is equivalent in 2010 dollars?

$517.95

[bamfordsgarage]

Blueskies: "...I don't think there is any way to know if you "got it right" unless you drive the car for a time and then take the drums back off to look at the wear pattern on the shoes.

The only thing you can tell by adjusting them "by feel" is if a shoe is dragging inside the drum. You can not tell if it is the heel or the toe, or the the edge of the shoe, or the whole shoe, because when the drum is in place you can't see the shoes...."

I'd like to think its possible to adjust new brakes reasonably well without the tool. Last summer we did a major overhaul of my D25 brakes, including new cylinders, shoes and a number of lines. If there was a tool available, we certainly would have used it. But FWIW, here's what we did instead:

1. Sat down in front of the backing plate with the repair manual and a large coffee. Spent the better part of an hour looking at the book and all the parts, following the procedure in the manual and making sure I understood the process exactly how it was done, why, and the desired result.

2. Rough adjustment by eyeball and feel.

3. Fine adjustment with masking tape (see photo). This was a quick and easy way to see exactly where the shoes are touching the drum. Put tape on the shoes, put the drums on and rotate, pull the drum and look at the tape. Contact area will be an obvious mark on the tape. We found we could "read" the tape to determine if the contact was heavy or light.

4. Make an adjustment, remove the tape and put on a new piece, check the tape, repeat, repeat, repeat as necessary. The tape is only a few thou thick (can't remember exactly), so once the brakes are adjusted and the tape is removed, there is just enough clearance to prevent drag.

The first wheel took a long time. By the time we adjusted the fourth wheel, the process was reasonably quick. Our first test drive and the longer one to Hershey showed no tendency for side pulling or other mis-adjustment indicators.

When finished, the contact area was not anywhere near 100% but was reasonably well distributed on the shoes. I assume the spotty contact area was at least partially due to the shoes not being ground to the exact diameter of the drums (which we did not have turned as there appeared to be little need). In any event, we figured the shoe adjustment and size was close enough and would wear in fairly soon.

In fairness, we have not pulled the drums to check wear patterns. I'll do that when we get back home in the spring.

[HanksB3B]

I used the cheat-sheet method someone here on the board put together (which both helped and confused me a little because I couldn't figure out if I was supposed to turn in the direction of the arrows looking from the backing plate or from the drum side). Eventually by feel I figured it out and with patience was able to set the toe and heel fairly well. Your masking tape innovation would definitely have taken it a step further. No problems so far and it's been a little over a year. Of course all brake components from the master cylinder, lines, slave cylinders are new. I think the only way to get success with the Lockheed Brakes is to initially start from scratch and replace all components. You can't have a leaky wheel cylinder fix it and then have another leaky cylinder a week later.

Hank

[Tim Keith]

I looked at my 1750 brake micrometer today. It looks like someone with lathe skills could duplicate this tool, make something similar that is good enough. The tool does not seem to be very complicated such that anyone who really wanted one could have a workalike. I doubt if the demand for these is more than a few dozen a year. Hundreds are sitting on shelves collecting dust, sort of like old Hemis in the corner of garages.

I will probably sell mine, if someone will give me what is is now worth! Its in the original box. Does anyone have a scanned image of the instructions? The papers with mine are soiled with oil. The included papers display some of the other products of the company, a tool for straightening connecting rods etc.

[blueskies]

Does anyone have a scanned image of the instructions?

[Powerhouse]

I'd sure love to get a hold of one and have the engineers at work figure how much it would cost to produce...and make at least one.

[desoto1939]

I looked at my 1750 brake micrometer today. It looks like someone with lathe skills could duplicate this tool, make something similar that is good enough. The tool does not seem to be very complicated such that anyone who really wanted one could have a workalike. I doubt if the demand for these is more than a few dozen a year. Hundreds are sitting on shelves collecting dust, sort of like old Hemis in the corner of garages.

I will probably sell mine, if someone will give me what is is now worth! Its in the original box. Does anyone have a scanned image of the instructions? The papers with mine are soiled with oil. The included papers display some of the other products of the company, a tool for straightening connecting rods etc.

Keith,

PM me and I will send you are very clean copy of the Instruction sheet that I have as a PDF.

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Don Coatney]

It should be a requirement to read all the information available on the main web page that supports this forum before posting here. If you do your homework and read it you will find this in the Techinal Tips section.

"The Plymouth Bulletin #229 (March-April 1998) has an article on how to build a low cost replacement MT-19H. You can order reprints from the Plymouth Owners Club store"

If you take the time to read this you will find it takes the pictured flangette and bearing to make this tool. I bought these parts but elected to convert to disc brakes before I completed assembly of this tool.