Who's tired of having to prime the carb?

[Reg Evans]

I may or may not have discovered something that has been bothering me for a long time. All of my old Mopars with the Carter B & B carbs will not start easily after resting for a week or so unless I first squirt a little gas down the carb.

This goes for my 40 Plymouth too that I purchased a couple of months ago. During the time I was doing the brake job I also decided to install an original carter fuel filter I picked up on ebay. It's the original glass bowl type with the stone filter element inside. It installs right on the inlet to the carb. These filters are usually long gone and replaced with a cheap clear plastic filter hanging down line a little. This car was doing the same annoying hard to start thing that all of mine do. No gas in the carb after about a week of sitting.

Today I went out to the car port to start it up and bring it in to complete the brake job and she fired right up. This was after sitting for over a week.

Could it be??? Does the original filter bowl stop back siphoning or something????? Have I stumbeled onto something or have the gasoline fumes finally gone to my head???

I'm sure folks back in the 40's didn't have to have a small container of gas around to prime their carbs.

What have you guys been experiencing when starting your car after about a week of non use?

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v154/olddodges1/?action=view&current=MVC-003S.jpg

[Young Ed]

Reg I've got those at the carb filters for both my coupe and 46wc but haven't installed either one. Both of them have started after sitting all winter without having to mess with the carb. However my 51 that sits more always needs some carb help to get running.

[Norm's Coupe]

Reg,

Don't think I've ever had a problem with starting the car since rebuilding after only sitting for one week. (other than when the fuel pump died). My coupe sat for about 5 or 6 weeks without starting it until the other day. When it sits that long I give it about 3 or 4 pumps on the gas pedal, pull out the choke and she starts right up. If it only sits for a week you only have to pump once, then it starts right up. I don't have the type filter you mentioned, just inline cannister type you can buy in any auto parts store. Have two of those, one just before the gas tank under the car and one about half way between the fuel pump and carb.

Actually the only time I have to pump 3 or 4 times after sitting for many weeks is during the winter months when temperatures are around 10 degrees or below. During the summer it's always once, then start.

[Normspeed]

Sorry Norm, it's choice B, you've been sniffing too much gasoline.

No really, the stock fuel pump has a one way flapper valve in it to prevent back-siphoning but they don't always work. So your filter install is doing what the fuel pump should. Good to know this works.

Or, you could install an electric pump and never worry about it again...

[Reg Evans]

Well....I thought I'd heard this complaint lots of times before but so far I guess my cars and trucks are the only ones having this problem. Anyone else having to keep a small container of gas on hand?

[Normspeed]

I guess it's me who sniffed too much unleaded. I should have said Reg, not Norm...

[claybill]

dont use gas...dont use either. use carb and choke cleaner. 2 squirts in the aircleaner. works on my dual set-up.

claybill

[TodFitch]

I guess I am either lazy or brutal on the car depending on your point of view:

My carb does go dry if the car sits for a week or more and it does take some cranking to get it to start.

However, I figure that sitting that long will also result in oil draining out of the various passages in the engine too.

So I crank the engine with the ignition off until I see the oil pressure gauge move. I do this in short 10 to 15 second bursts to keep from over heating the starter.

By the time I see some oil pressure the carb has been refilled and, with the ignition on, it starts right up.

The process puts some wear and tear on the starter and the battery. But the starter seems to be bullet proof and batteries are cheap. Also, I then have a good excuse to drive the car until the battery is fully recharged.

Of course this only works on cars where the starter switch is separate from the ignition switch. . .

[JIPJOBXX]

Claybill do you have the oil bath air cleaner? I would find it kind of hard to spray anything in my air filter because of the way its built. Oh yes I also have a little trouble starting after a week or so. But I think that is because I have stuck firm with the automatic choke and I really don't think it works as good as a hand choke.

[claybill]

no...should have mentioned i have 2 little chrome air cleaners..with dual carb set-up. i have an electric pump on my other ply and no problem after a few pumps.

claybill

[Young Ed]

You can poor gas through the oilbath. Just loosen the wingnut and dribble a little right at the threads. It makes it way in there just fine. Done it many times.

[40phil41]

I also have the same symptoms as Reg on both my '40 and my '41. They need gas added to the carb. after sitting for a week or so (bowls are dry). If I don't do this the battery will discharge before they fire up. I can't see the gas reverse syphoning out through the needle valve but I do think that gas drains out of the bowl and into the manifold. Nevertheless, both have the newer in-line fuel filter between the fuel pump and carb. I do have one of those original type fuel filters around here someplace. Maybe I'll give it a try this summer. FYI, I have just rebuilt and re-installed the Stromberg BXVD-3 carb. on my '40 but it will be April before I get to starting it up again.

Phil

[Normspeed]

I think the reverse siphoning will only let so much gas out of the bowl, down to the level of the needle and seat. After that, if the bowl is going dry, there's probably an internal leak, possibly at the step-up needle. I'm still learning the quirks of these simple little carbs. I think I've finally got both of mine to stop leaking down when parked. I was getting sick of smelling gas fumes.

[randroid]

Gents,

I had the same problem for the six years my '48 P15 was my daily driver; if I parked on a hill with the nose in the air it would take me forever to get that puppy restarted, even if just after fifteen minutes. I went to NAPA for a check valve but they'd never heard of one for a fuel line, so I learned to live with it. I rebuilt the Carter B&B last December and found my problem was that I hadn't replaced a check valve built into the carb.

There are two of these valves and they're little ball bearings. One goes under the accelerator pump and one is inside the float tank, and it was the latter that I'd somehow missed replacing so the tank could drain into the manifold at will. If your carb has one in place and you're still having the problem then perhaps it isn't seating properly and it's time to nuke the carb body clean.

This may not be your problem but it is certainly something that would cause it and, ergo, worth a look.

-Randy

[Fireball]

In this case the cure might as well be the fueltube that is seen in the picture, the bend on it sits higher than the filter/bowl, thus preventing fuel draining backwards. Perhaps...

[Don Coatney]

I think you guys are missing the real reason several of us have this problem. It is not back siphoning. I believe accelerated evaporation of today’s gasoline is the real problem. I do the same as Tod Fitch. I spin my engine in short bursts with the starter allowing the oil to circulate and build pressure before I start pumping the accelerator pedal and going for a blast off. This works every time for me. I never use the choke.

[Reg Evans]

Claybill do you have the oil bath air cleaner? I would find it kind of hard to spray anything in my air filter because of the way its built. Oh yes I also have a little trouble starting after a week or so. But I think that is because I have stuck firm with the automatic choke and I really don't think it works as good as a hand choke.

Jon,

When I prime mine I just loosen the air cleaner wing nut and pour about a tablespoon down the center of the air cleaner. No need to remove the air cleaner.

[Reg Evans]

In this case the cure might as well be the fueltube that is seen in the picture, the bend on it sits higher than the filter/bowl, thus preventing fuel draining backwards. Perhaps...

I thought of that too Fireball. Wouldn't that be cool if that was all that was needed !

I'm gonna go out and look inside my 35 Dodges Stromberg float bowl to see if it's dry. She's been sitting for several weeks now. It doesn't have the glass bowl filter either and I can just about run the battery dead trying to get gas back into the carb. I have new 00 cables and a fairly new battery.

[Reg Evans]

You can poor gas through the oilbath. Just loosen the wingnut and dribble a little right at the threads. It makes it way in there just fine. Done it many times.

Hey Ed...I thought you didn't have this problem

[Young Ed]

My 51 does. The 46 and 48 don't. Plus I've seen it done many times on dads cars and various mopars we've worked on. Now that I've shot my mouth off we'll see how the 46 & 48 do after sitting since last year.

[greg g]

Question. Has any one taken off the top of a carb of a car that has been sitting for a while, and found the float bowl empty???? Seems to me everytime I have pulled the top offthere has always been at least half a bowl of fuel. So why won't the darn things start????? I will probably need to crank mine for 45 seconds to a minute in 10 second intervals to wake it up from its winter slumber. (which hopfully may be this weekend)

[Reg Evans]

I'll do this on my 52 pickup with a ball and ball 1 bbl. It's been sitting for about 6 weeks. I'll let ya know what I found Greg.

Today I did go out and remove the air cleaner off my 35 Dodge so I could see how much gas squirted down the carb when I worked the linkage. I had been sitting idle for several weeks. I got only 1 weak 1/2 squirt of gas so I went and tried to start it anyway. No Go ....without help from my well used gas filled mustard bottle with the squirt top. A couple of squirts and she started right up.

Today I added another Carter glass fuel filter. I'm going to let the car sit for another week or two and see if she'll start on her own. I'm thinking that the gas will stay in the bowl and will be pushed into the dry carb right away for faster starting. Got my finger crossed !!!!

BEFORE

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/olddodges1/Nessie%20and%20cousins/MVC-004S.jpg

AFTER

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/olddodges1/Nessie%20and%20cousins/MVC-005S.jpg

[grey beard]

I like what I read on this thread, especially about cranking the engine several times in short bursts before turning on the ignition switch. Sure would help the engine live longer if the oil circuits were primed before lightoff.

I don't think any combination of fuel filters will have any effect on cold startup. AND pouring gasoline into an air cleaner is sorta parochial, to my thinking. Why, our carbs all have perfectly good accelerator pumps in there just waiting to do that job for us with a push or two of the accelerator.

Here's my suggestion - let her sit several days, then remove the air cleaner and stroke the throttle from idle to wot, while looking down the air horn throat of the carburetor. If each stroke produces fuel into the throat, you have fuel in the bowl. If the bowl is empty, here is the problem that needs to be addressed, and different fuel filters will not get the bowl filled.

The last few Carters I overhauled this past winter, I took extra pains to check all gasket surfaces for trueness. WOW, was I surprised at what I found. Get a two buck tube of Permatex blueing at NAPA and check our your surfaces on a piece of glass. You will find them warped beyond belief, if yours are like mine. I used emory paper on glass to true these surfaces - doesn't take much spiffing to get them square. Then the blueing proves how good your surfaces really mate together.

If you get the surfaces square, then the gaskets will hold fuel and vacuum as they should. Also get the ball check valves in clean bores, and I think your carb bowl will stay full - UNLESS your heat riser is stuck closed and you are percolating the fuel out of the bowl after hot shutdown. This you can check thirty minutes after you've shut the engine off. Good Luck

[bob_amos]

Good point Dave. This may be our problems' answer. Along with the missing ball inside the float chamber. Here is something that you might try to see if it is evaporation of the fuel. Set a small can with fuel in it on cylinder head next to the carb. Check it from time to time and see how much evaporates. My '63 Belair has a rochester one barrel cab and, while it does loos some fuel, it always starts after a few weeks of sitting around. It sits right next to the Plymouth. The '53 Cranbrook is not so accomadating. It will run dry in 5 or 6 days. I think I'll remove the B&B and follow Dave's recommendations. I know that carb parts are always getting warped as I once did overhaul many carbs a week. Now... maybe one every 2 years or so. Hell, even after purchasing a reman carb from a specialty rebuilder I had to tear the thing apart and rework the warped surfaces.

[Reg Evans]

Question. Has any one taken off the top of a carb of a car that has been sitting for a while, and found the float bowl empty???? Seems to me everytime I have pulled the top offthere has always been at least half a bowl of fuel. So why won't the darn things start????? I will probably need to crank mine for 45 seconds to a minute in 10 second intervals to wake it up from its winter slumber. (which hopfully may be this weekend)

OK...I just went out to the garage and removed the tops of the carbs on my 42 Dodge coupe(Stromberg) and my 52 Dodge truck(Carter). Both float bowls are bone dry except for a little gas under the accelerator pump. Enough gas for 1 weak squirt but not enough to get the engine running. Both vehicles have sat idle for a month or more. The truck with the carter carb does have a Carter glass bowled filter right at the carb. The glass bowl is about 1/2 full of gas. The 42 dodge has one of the clear plastic filters hanging down line from the carb about 5". It's empty of gas. The Trucks Carter carb is NOS so it shouldn't be warped but it's bone dry. My truck has always started Right up even after sitting for a couple of weeks. I always thought this was because it has been converted to 12V and turned over much faster. Maybe not. It has that reservoir of gas waiting in the glass bowl right next to the carb ready to be pushed into the carb. I don't know for sure yet if these stock type filters really help but I will in a few months because I'm installing one on each car. Maybe a double gasket would help seal the chronically warping carb tops too. Time will tell.

Or....I might have to give this idea up and just install elec. fuel pumps. They sure are noisy though.