Is there an easy drop in???

[NiftyFifty]

So now that I'm racing up the roads in my 50 1 ton, I realize I'm racing at a max spped of 58-60 mph and becoming a road hazard to the 70 mph drivers. I know now that my engine is well worn, so I can go the route of a rebuild, but that means removing the engine to do a proper job so when it's out why not replace with a few more ponies.

Is there any easy answer to putting in a V8 without massive changes? I have seen a pile of threads on engine changes but most seem like a lot of mod to the firewall etc. I would like a 360 with a 5 speed manual, but I'm honestly a chevy man at heart so a 350 with a T5 is a better option, but I don't want to get into a frame cutting or firewall cutting job over the winter as my shop heat is low so it's just above freezing.

Any info from other members or websites or answers appreciated.

Thanks guys!

[Frank Elder]

If you are hauling hogs or logs everyday I could see keeping your rear the way it is....if it is going to be a play truck with an occasional load, why not just rebuild a 6 and swap out your diffy?

Simpler than a 350/T5 swap and it keeps it mopar. 350 aaacck

[NiftyFifty]

If you are hauling hogs or logs everyday I could see keeping your rear the way it is....if it is going to be a play truck with an occasional load, why not just rebuild a 6 and swap out your diffy?

Simpler than a 350/T5 swap and it keeps it mopar. 350 aaacck

Diffs already changed to a 3:54 from a Jeep, so that's not the issue with low speeds, it's a 6 cyl motor that even in it's hay day only had 87 hp. Hauling isn't what the trucks for, but I would like to use it a lot during the summer months and with this current set-up I'm not happy to drive it the 35 miles to town and back on the week-ends or week nights.

I like mopar, but I find it cheaper and easier to work with gm powertrain...

[Merle Coggins]

You should be able to keep up with traffic just fine with a 3.54 diff. I have a 3.73 diff in my truck and can run down the freeway at 70+ if needed. When you got up to 60, was that all the truck would do or did you just feel that the engine was just running too fast at that point? Keep in mind that these engines are noiser than modern engines, and with no fan clutch the fan is pushing max air all the time. The fan is what makes the most noise and makes it sound like it's reving faster than it really is.

Using the algebraic formula I recently learned from Dave (grey beard) let's do the math. (Tire Diameter x 3.14 / 12 = tire circumference in feet. 5280 / circumference number x axle ratio = RPM @ 60 MPH)

I'll use an estimated tire diameter of 28". 28 x 3.14 = 87.92" circumference divided by 12 = 7.33 feet. 5280 feet (1 mile) / 7.33 = 720.33 wheel RPM @ 60 MPH x 3.54 = 2550 engine RPM @ 60 MPH. That is a moderate RPM for your engine. It should be able to rev up to 3200 - 3500 RPM without a problem. If your tires are taller than my example, your RPM will be even lower.

Now, if it just won't pull past 60, you have another issue. Maybe it's an ignition or fuel issue, or your engine is just that tired.

Merle

[pflaming]

Keep in mind that these engines are noiser than modern engines, and with no fan clutch the fan is pushing max air all the time. The fan is what makes the most noise and makes it sound like it's reving faster than it really is. Merle.

Interesting! Because of a pressing issue, I have suspended work on my truck but read the forum for future simple ideas. SO. . . a different fan would quiet down the engine noise! What fans are available and preferred? Since my cab has no insulation I would guess insulation will also be a great help. Thanks Merle.

[NiftyFifty]

You should be able to keep up with traffic just fine with a 3.54 diff. I have a 3.73 diff in my truck and can run down the freeway at 70+ if needed. When you got up to 60, was that all the truck would do or did you just feel that the engine was just running too fast at that point? Keep in mind that these engines are noiser than modern engines, and with no fan clutch the fan is pushing max air all the time. The fan is what makes the most noise and makes it sound like it's reving faster than it really is.

Using the algebraic formula I recently learned from Dave (grey beard) let's do the math. (Tire Diameter x 3.14 / 12 = tire circumference in feet. 5280 / circumference number x axle ratio = RPM @ 60 MPH)

I'll use an estimated tire diameter of 28". 28 x 3.14 = 87.92" circumference divided by 12 = 7.33 feet. 5280 feet (1 mile) / 7.33 = 720.33 wheel RPM @ 60 MPH x 3.54 = 2550 engine RPM @ 60 MPH. That is a moderate RPM for your engine. It should be able to rev up to 3200 - 3500 RPM without a problem. If your tires are taller than my example, your RPM will be even lower.

Now, if it just won't pull past 60, you have another issue. Maybe it's an ignition or fuel issue, or your engine is just that tired.

Merle

I'm running GPS to get my true MPH so I know where I'm at, and to get the truck to 60 your in 4th gear and basically have the pedal to the floor. My oil pressure shows 0 at highway speed and I know that's not exactly right, but I was a mechanic for a few years before I got out and pretty self educated on vehicles so I can tell when a motor is finished...this one makes the list.

I don't have a tach in yet, but again knowing the sounds over the years I would say I'm at about 25-2800 when I'm cruising at 55 and to get too 60 it's pushing it too hard, so it's decsision time. The funny thing is the motor runs VERY well, but on the comp test all cyls are around 80 so it's pretty low.

[Allen I.]

Moving to a 230 wouldn't be a gigantic burst of HP but it can't get much easier to swap.

[dwilliamson03]

I have a new Earl Edgerton finned aluminum head with matching valve covers, used offenhauser dual intake manifold, new water pump, new valves and springs for sale. I just got married and am having to sell this and am going to just put a 318 in my 1948 B-1-D. I hate to do it, but i have to. Will consider any reasonable offer. WILL SELL TOGETHER OR BY PART. WILLING TO DEAL

[Reg Evans]

The Dodge car 230's started in 1942 and were rated at 105 hp. By the time they ended in 1959 they were up to 135 hp stock. Find one and drop it in.

[greg g]

I would bet with your compression readings you are looking at pistons with brken rings and lands. This is common problem with these engines for some reason. Just about everyone who has torn one down has found 1 or more pistons in that condition. If you are determined to do a swap, have at it. couple folks have mentioned using the 3.8 or is it 3.9 mopar V6 as found in early Dakotas to be a powerful and responsive engine that fits the space quite well.

[Don Coatney]

I'm honestly a chevy man at heart so a 350 with a T5 is a better option,

I say go for the shiverlay engine as it sounds like you have already made your mind up. Remember you have to make yourself happy before you make anybody else happy.

[Merle Coggins]

These are pretty robust engines. Before I'd condem it completely I'd recheck a few things.

1st off, 80 PSI of compression pressure is considered minimum according to my manual, but it is dependant on a few things. Was then engine cranking at a minimum of 150 RPM when testing? Was the throttle wide open? These two will make a big difference in your compression readings. As long as they're 80 or better, and fairly equal, I'd say your engine is in decent condition.

2nd, does it smoke badly out the pipe or have excessive blowby? This might indicate bad piston rings which would corroborate poor compression pressure.

3rd, do you really have 0 oil pressure or do you just have a bad gauge? I'd double check it with a known good gauge.

4th, ignition timing and points adjustments will have a significant effect on engine performance. My truck was loosing power to the point where I could bearly get up to 60 MPH. I found that the cheap points that I had were loosing their gap because the rub block was wearing fast. The points gap got too small which reduced the spark capability as well as retaded the timing a whole bunch. Recheck your points gap/dwell and ignition timing to be sure it's correct. While your at it check that the advance is working properly. I believe your 1 ton doesn't have a vaccume advance, but it'll still have a mechanical advance. With a timing light hooked up, rev the engine and see that the timing advances. You'll probably need an advancing light to see that it advances the proper amount, but at least you'd know it's working.

And as long as I'm on the topic of ignition, I recently tuned up my truck with new points and found that I could bearly get over 50 MPH. I finally discovered that I had assembled the points spring inproperly and was getting severe points bounce which would disrupt the timing at higher RPM. I'm not saying that you may have a similar issue, but it may be worth checking into.

5th, is your throttle linkage right? When your pedal is to the floor is the carb linkage at max too? If the linkage is missadjusted you may not be getting full WOT (Wide Open Throttle).

And 6th, be sure you have no vaccume leaks. A vaccume leak can also hamper engine performance.

I have stayed away from fuel related issues since you didn't say anything about it feeling like it was running out of fuel, but a bad fuel line of pump could also effect engine power under load.

And one last point... your 1 ton should already have a 230 CID engine.

Merle

[NiftyFifty]

These are pretty robust engines. Before I'd condem it completely I'd recheck a few things.

1st off, 80 PSI of compression pressure is considered minimum according to my manual, but it is dependant on a few things. Was then engine cranking at a minimum of 150 RPM when testing? Was the throttle wide open? These two will make a big difference in your compression readings. As long as they're 80 or better, and fairly equal, I'd say your engine is in decent condition.

2nd, does it smoke badly out the pipe or have excessive blowby? This might indicate bad piston rings which would corroborate poor compression pressure.

3rd, do you really have 0 oil pressure or do you just have a bad gauge? I'd double check it with a known good gauge.

4th, ignition timing and points adjustments will have a significant effect on engine performance. My truck was loosing power to the point where I could bearly get up to 60 MPH. I found that the cheap points that I had were loosing their gap because the rub block was wearing fast. The points gap got too small which reduced the spark capability as well as retaded the timing a whole bunch. Recheck your points gap/dwell and ignition timing to be sure it's correct. While your at it check that the advance is working properly. I believe your 1 ton doesn't have a vaccume advance, but it'll still have a mechanical advance. With a timing light hooked up, rev the engine and see that the timing advances. You'll probably need an advancing light to see that it advances the proper amount, but at least you'd know it's working.

And as long as I'm on the topic of ignition, I recently tuned up my truck with new points and found that I could bearly get over 50 MPH. I finally discovered that I had assembled the points spring inproperly and was getting severe points bounce which would disrupt the timing at higher RPM. I'm not saying that you may have a similar issue, but it may be worth checking into.

5th, is your throttle linkage right? When your pedal is to the floor is the carb linkage at max too? If the linkage is missadjusted you may not be getting full WOT (Wide Open Throttle).

And 6th, be sure you have no vaccume leaks. A vaccume leak can also hamper engine performance.

I have stayed away from fuel related issues since you didn't say anything about it feeling like it was running out of fuel, but a bad fuel line of pump could also effect engine power under load.

And one last point... your 1 ton should already have a 230 CID engine.

Merle

Actually checked the timing cold before I had the wiring all complete and my distb re-built, so honestly in my years of exp I only found compression to get worse when hot, so I should do another test, but I have a feeling I know the results.

The motor does smoke out the exhaust and basically all the time, which to me means rings, start-up only usually is valves but it smokes all the time it's running and a lot more under load

As for oil pressure I changed the oil today, tightened up some lines to be sure (had a small leak) and ran it. I have about 40 lbs max when idle cold, and once you start driving it just goes down the more load you put on the engine, then when warm it reads about 20 so the gauge seems to be doing something, although 0 at driving would probably have me seized on the road long ago.

The distb was completely rebuilt and gap set by someone with 30+ years experience and also someone who in his own performance car still runs a points system to I trust him a 100% that it's right. As for timing I ran it retarded for a few days then advanced it about 3-4 deg. so it's running right there and my advance seems to be working when I speed up it moves the marks ahead.

Only possible vacum leak is the wiper motor hose and I have that clamped so it seems good, sprayed carb cleaner around all the other possible leaks while running and no change so again experience says no leaks.

The fuel pump is now an electric pump that provides more gph then the old stock manual so I'm not loosing any gas, it's really just a tried old motor, but one thing is when I entered the vin in that dodge page that reads them I didn't have the 230 it was something smaller...218? and my vin plate says right on it max hp 87 at 3200 rpm...so It never was a speedy truck.

Really what I'm asking for is true experience here gents...who has put what in and tell your story. I appreciate you guys trying to save the original, but with front disc, new rear diff and all the other changes were a long way from original anyway.

Thanks again!

[Merle Coggins]

Ok then, I believe you... it's toast.

Did the Canadian built trucks use the 218CID 25" engine? I recall that all Canadian built trucks used the 25" engine instead of the smaller 23"er, so you may be correct that it is a 218 CID engine instead of a 230. Down here they used the 218 in 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks and a 230 in the 1 ton.

Merle

[NiftyFifty]

Ok then, I believe you... it's toast.

Did the Canadian built trucks use the 218CID 25" engine? I recall that all Canadian built trucks used the 25" engine instead of the smaller 23"er, so you may be correct that it is a 218 CID engine instead of a 230. Down here they used the 218 in 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks and a 230 in the 1 ton.

Merle

yep, I have the "big block" in one of my trucks and the other is the shorter 23" block, but it's seized tighter then my wife's pocket book

I also thought I had some room to adjust my clutch, but I see there's no real adj. on them...and it's giving me some issues too...so this really is a case of needing some major work.

[48Dodger]

I can't believe any V8 swap could be easy. To many issues make it a big undertaking. Honestly, I would believe if any of us found an easier way of swaping one in without cutting the firwall we would have done it. As it is, the best location for the engine (weight distrubrution) really makes it hard not to cut the firewall. Then the exhaust/steering/starter issue (chevy would help remove that problem). The transmission/shifter mount issues, the upgrades needed to the brakes/ignition, etc....

Nothing wrong with a Chevy/T5 deal......I think you might find "firewall cutting" not that big of a deal, and will actually MAKE it easier to get what you want.

48D

[NiftyFifty]

I've decided to give up on the idea, I just see way too many changes needed to fit something in properly and with another straight 6 like a jeep engine I'm just getting a better hwy truck and not a "sleeper" anyway...so my thoughts are to just do rings and pistons this winter and start the hunt for another project.

Actually found a nice 79 D-100 with a short box/step side....very cool...but I think the owner wants a fortune...and I would really prefer a car with stock front disc and better suspension anyway

I can't believe any V8 swap could be easy. To many issues make it a big undertaking. Honestly, I would believe if any of us found an easier way of swaping one in without cutting the firwall we would have done it. As it is, the best location for the engine (weight distrubrution) really makes it hard not to cut the firewall. Then the exhaust/steering/starter issue (chevy would help remove that problem). The transmission/shifter mount issues, the upgrades needed to the brakes/ignition, etc....

Nothing wrong with a Chevy/T5 deal......I think you might find "firewall cutting" not that big of a deal, and will actually MAKE it easier to get what you want.

48D

[HanksB3B]

My vote:

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Hank