Body work and painting

[DollyDodge]

As I move along with restoring my old B-2 I will need some help with rust removal, body work, and painting. Does anyone have recommedations for good books or DVD's on those topics? I know nearly nothing about those three topics.

[Plymouthy Adams]

research the internet, even this forum over on the P15/D24 side has an abundance of how did/how to articles..cussed and discussed methods, procedures and products..alos if possible check your local tech schools for shop classes or at least as a souce for books. Find a mentor and apprentice yourself a bit...

[pflaming]

When I start something new, I open a document and title it. Then I go to the 'search' threads and cut and paste information to this document. I also cut and paste to this document from thread responses to my questions (See below). Then I edit and place the information in the order the work will take. I print out that page(s) and tape it to my work area. There is a lot of small detail from the forum that is not in work books. SO put "paint" in the search and start reading, cutting and pasting. THEN put "rust", and whatever else might apply. This will save you a LOT of confusion. I am sure some get tired of some of us, but I figure they don't have to log on. OH YES, TAKE PICTURES! Your truck is DIFFERENT and you will NOT remember.

Here is how I edited the 'timing chain' answers.

To remove the bolt requires an impact hammer. Bolt size is 1 11/16”. The ‘crank bolt’ holds the pulley, (see below). My bolt will allow me to hand crank the engine.

To remove the belt pulley you need a puller. It threads into the 2 bolt holes you mentioned and then pushed against the crank after the big nut is removed. Don't thread the 2 puller bolts in too far or you get dents/holes in your timing cover. With the cover off even if you rotate stuff you won’t mess anything up unless you remove the timing chain/gears. And yes the only way to check the chain is to remove the cover and have a look.

REMOVING THE BOLTS

Starting with the missing bolt, then going clockwise, I had seven of the bolts with cupped washers. The remaining ones don't go into water or oil jackets so they can be regular bolts and washers. The ones with the permanent washers are marked with a raised circle on the head.

Personal notation: Mark one bolt #1 (1 0’clock) and lay the bolts out in order so that they return to the same hole)

The bolts that thread directly into the water jacket and from the backside directly into the timing chain area need thread sealant.

Starting with the missing bolt, then going clockwise, I had seven of the bolts with cupped washers. The remaining ones don't go into water or oil jackets so they can be regular bolts and washers. The ones with the permanent washers are marked with a raised circle on the head.

Mine looked like it was that bottom bolt too, but it was sneaking down from a higher bolt and dripping off the bottom bolt.

The bolts that thread directly into the water jacket and from the backside directly into the timing chain area need thread sealant.

Also, I believe I used a cupped washer bolt and sealer on that one above and right of the timing cover because it was also seeping coolant.

Caution: (1) make sure TDC is correct and (2) the oil pump is installed correctly. The oil pump can throw off the distributor. Never know what a previous owner may have done and since your in there just check everything. (Since my engine runs, check but do not fix something that works)

A note of caution: on the 2 styles of front cover seals. (1) One seal is flat on the rear side. (2)Another style has a raised curved lip/oil slinger on the back/chain side of cover. The top/center picture shows (3) a later style slinger type oil seal. (4) The picture of the timing chain (see forum “timing chain” is a modern replacement chain (narrower) than original DPCD chain installed on the old DPCD gears. Always replace all 3 pieces (gears, chain, seal) as a matched set.

Originally Posted by grey beard

When you pull your engine front cover, expect to find a very loose timing chain. I could nearly lift my own off the gears with my fingers. Buy a new chain and gears

This is very true.

On one engine I just pulled down the chain was that stretched you could set it up dot to dot on the gears and still end up being 1 tooth out. In checking out the cam timing I found that a stretched chain could retard the cam up to 5 deg.

[48Dodger]

Hey DollyDodge,

I have an idea. Fly a chopper out to my place, and land on my race track. We can share a couple Pepsi, and I'll show you what it takes to do "rust/body/paint". MapQuest sez Clements to Bishop driving is 6 hours. Don't know how long flying would take, you'd have to tell me. lol.

48D

[Norm's Coupe]

You can also find lots of information/books on how to at the public library. Before doing my interior I found a real nice old time how to book there. Checked it out, brought it home and copied the whole book on the copy machine, then bound it together, to read when I had time. Then returned the book to the library.

[dontknowitall]

Hi, i am a panelbeater , well ex one... but may be able to tell you what works and what doesnt.. some short cuts and how to do it cheap

Cheers ryan

[DollyDodge]

thanks for all the info.

48 Dodger. I wish I had a chopper of my own!!!! I go through Clemets every once in a while. One of these days I will look you up!!

[dontknowitall]

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[Plymouthy Adams]

those discs are amazing at their ability to remove paints and surface rust..howver..do be advised when working a panel that these do indeed create a lot of heat..be careful of skin burns and possible flexing of the metal..do not overwork an area...if you come upon a stubborn area, stop, let it cool and return to work later..

Edited December 21, 2009 by Tim Adams

[dontknowitall]

hi Tim, as a panelbeater I found the carbon poly disks are less heat creating then any steel disk. Hence I use them all the time! In deed they are amazing and unfortunatly expensive!

[DollyDodge]

Where can I purchase those discs?

Also in a couple of days I will post some pictures of the rust on my truck. I tooks some fine emory paper and worked on a couple of spots. On the bed the rust on some spots seems to be on top of the paint. Just a little rubbing and there is grey paint underneath. On the hood it only took monor rubbing to see bare metal. On the fenders, it took a bit more rubbing to get to metal, but not of the rust seems very thick.

[Plymouthy Adams]

if you are referring to shrinking disc..these things are designed to generate heat ...I am amazed at how effective they are.....

[kencombs]

Take a look at this site, good source of info on tools, prices and availability. 'decent prices if you want to buy off the 'net. And, most important, a great forum with lots of professionals willing to share info.

[48Dodger]

Hey Dontknowitall,

I think youre talking about the Poly-X pads. I haven't found'em over here yet, but I'm sure they are somewhere. They seem pretty cool and would like to have some around. But for a job as big as DollyDodge's, I think a media blast or soda Blast would be a more complete job. They amount of time/material needed to strip and clean, it would seem to me, more cost effective to have a shop blast it.

48D

[dontknowitall]

Hey Dontknowitall,

I think youre talking about the Poly-X pads. I haven't found'em over here yet, but I'm sure they are somewhere. They seem pretty cool and would like to have some around. But for a job as big as DollyDodge's, I think a media blast or soda Blast would be a more complete job. They amount of time/material needed to strip and clean, it would seem to me, more cost effective to have a shop blast it.

48D

yes 48D, we call them different here.. when i first used them we called them "stripper" disk. They were cheap as chips, now they have become dearer. The advantage of these disk are that you can do one panel at the time at low cost. They dont overheat the metal as do other disks. I just ordered 10 large disks for less then 12 bucks straight from the factory. If you are carefull you can use one disk for 2 doors!. It leaves some dust, but no need for you to strip the car/truck... I dont know what it cost to have car sand or soda blasted in the USA but here you would have to strip and take of the panels etc. Using these disks you dont have to strip the car.

ryan

[48Dodger]

Soda blasting doesn't harm glass, plastic trim, or chrome and is biodegradable.

Eastwood makes a soda blaster but is a modified sand blaster and is better for small parts.

48D

Edited December 22, 2009 by 48dodger

[DollyDodge]

Thanks for all the input

[greg g]

You might also want to check your local technical schools and community colleges for evening classes in the basic stuff. And also if you go to your local welding supply sotre they will sometimes have classes that you pay for or that they give when you purchase a welder if your thiking of going that way. And cutting out old rusty stuuff and putting in new metal is really the only way to go for a lasting repair.

For smaller parts and removeable stuff like hinges, rusty hardware, and other pieces parts you might want to search the web for rust removal with electolisis, vinegar, and yes even molasses.

You can also use the search function on both the truck and car forums for what othere have done, put in stuff like floors, rockers, patch panels, body filler, priming etc.

With not much more than hand tools, a cheap wire welder and some sheet metal (got to local body shops and ask if you can have or buy hoods, trunk lids, doors, etc that they have replaced, as they can be cut up for patching materials) and a lot of patience, I went from this

Through a few steps

with a lot of sanding (which revealed a lost dog)

I know the repair area are actually the other fender but they were equally nasty, so it's not rocket science, and can be tedious, but probably a good way to spend long winter nights.

[grey beard]

I'm still sorta' partial to my roller paint job - no masking, no airborne paint, no odors, no problems. Cheap, too.

Ask me how . . .

[maine48ply]

I've been in a body shop class for 3 semesters now. Aside from all the invaluable info on this site, the class has allowed me to learn "hands on", as well as utilize the facility, including the paint booth. I do most of my painting and grinding in the shop, then do the smaller stuff in my garage. The added bonus is to have met some great local people with similar interests. Have fun with your project!

Mark

[Big50Dodge]

... I dont know what it cost to have car sand or soda blasted in the USA but here you would have to strip and take of the panels etc. Using these disks you dont have to strip the car.

ryan

For my 1.5 ton, front fenders, grill piece, all the radiator support structure and the splash pans behind the fenders = $675. Brought them over to the body shop right from the (chemical) strippers - The body shop owner must be looking for payments on a new Volvo or something as he's looking for just shy of $3K for the prep/paint. I'm looking for another shop now.

[dontknowitall]

the same here, it expensive because people think they have charge more because it a vintage car!

For my 1.5 ton, front fenders, grill piece, all the radiator support structure and the splash pans behind the fenders = $675. Brought them over to the body shop right from the (chemical) strippers - The body shop owner must be looking for payments on a new Volvo or something as he's looking for just shy of $3K for the prep/paint. I'm looking for another shop now.

[48Dodger]

Here's a recent thread on the H.A.M.B. concerning the pros and cons of Soda Blasting.

48D

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323470

[greg g]

Inexpensive sand blasting sources. Use your yellow pages (does anybody still use them) and look up memorial businesses. Yep the folks who do headstones, and such. they do quite a bit of media blasting to give the stones different textures and surfaces. If you have smaller stuff they will do it along side their "jobs" if they are ot busy a lot of times you can get them to do larger items, and they will charge about half of what comercial media blasters charge.

Might even save some money on a headstone whne it comes time.

[Plymouthy Adams]

it is like everythng out there..there are pro/cons and those who swear by it and those that swear at it...for the DIY I still find the pressure blaster and .030 media (sand) very sufficient..there is no worry of residue...I must question the plastic media and the possibility of abraided material left on the steel...soda is great for aluminum and resin coated substrates. Even with the use of sand in the blasting process I still wash my panels with acid to neutralize any micro pore and also to clean the panel itself...I use a 3M pad, wire brush or steel wool depending on the contour of the surface and rust imparted scar on the panel. It cost me 18.00 in material to sandblast my last car..I still have some of the sand on hand.