No start - looking for suggestions

[Don Coatney]

OUCH! Was there any strange engine noise before it quit running? I am thinking a cracked or defective piston. Or possibly some fluid got on top of the piston and hydraucally locked it up. Take a close look at the piston rod to see if it is bent.

[Young Ed]

My 270 hemi had a hole that big in the bottom of 1 cylinder and the machine shop said a sleeve would seal it right up. I cant verify it for sure because I couldnt afford teh 2K for all the parts and work.

[Jim Saraceno]

Wow! That's a killer. Sorry to see that. I wonder if it is possible that the hole in the cylinder came first?

[Plymouthy Adams]

as the valve head is missing it could be it ingested the valve...this could probably be verified by reading the head...else the piston did disenigrate and the resulting debri broke the valve head after the fact..I am sorry to hear of the damage..the head gasket and the overflowing fill tube just did not jibe...

what gets me is the fact that you did not report any strange noises or engine hiccups before she quit...

[Frank Elder]

An example of a hydrolocked piston and rod:eek::eek:Sorry for your bad luck Jim.

[greg g]

Jim, set you a PM.

[Greenbomb]

Wow! That sucks! My '50 runs like a top, but it's making some not too pleasant noises. I've been debating doing a rebuild. You just made up my mind. Let us know if you can determine what exactly happened.

Flo

[Young Ed]

My parental unit said this when I showed him the post and the picture "the valve most likely broke and took out the piston. if this happened at 40-50 mph, the damage would be done in a few seconds.the valve that failed may have been stretched by abuse or being out of adjustment for a long time.vw's were famous for this right after a valve adjustment when valves hadnt been adjusted on a regular basis."

[Jim Saraceno]

I forgot about the broken valve so that would make the most sense... the valve stem broke, the valve head got sucked into the cylinder then catastrophic failure of the piston and cylinder.

The question is what would make a valve break like that?

Jim, when the engine was rebuilt, were the valves replaced or do you think they were original?

[Plymouthy Adams]

next time you get a chance look closely at the stem as it connects to the valve head especially on ehaust valves..this area gets a lot of metal removed from them for some reason during normal wear and tear...whild the face could easily appear reusable, this could tell the stroy between reuse and discard...I always recommend new exhaust valves on a rebuilt..the intakes warrent inspection just the same but usually are not in bad shape due to the incoming charge of fuel laden air, cools this valve at all times.

[Jim Yergin]

Actually, the broken valve was all in one place. The stem broke just below the face of the valve and at first nothing looked wrong with the valve. Only after closer examination did I notice it was slightly askew. I discovered I could lift the disconnected end out of the seat. Therefore I don't think any part of the valve fell into the cylinder and took out the piston. I think it may have been more likely that a piece of the piston some how interfered with the valve and caused the valve to break. It will be interesting to see what I find in the oil pan when I disassemble the engine.

Jim Yergin

[Gary Manes]

The shop I used here in Oklahoma to rebuild my straight eight usually rebuilds racing engines. I was able to get them during the off season. I overheard a number of conversations between the owner and distressed customers when I went over for various issues during the rebuild.

My poor New Yorker's engine crank was in sad shape. A previous repair to one piston damaged the crank too much to grind it any further. Bearings are incredibly to find for the L8's, and there are two sizes to boot. The shop flash welded the crank, and ground it to "original" size ($895.00). There are plenty of originals--just the one ones typically needed after a rebuild are scarce as hen's teeth.

They can re-sleeve nearly anything. One customer had a hole in the water jacket of his engine--according to the customer--the size of his fist. The owner said that it was probably too big to repair. His son said that it would not be a problem, and proceeded to take the block to the back of the shop.

So, if the block is important to you, check with a respected shop in your area before you panic. Of course, cost may be a may be a factor. But, what the heck, it can't hurt to ask.

GOOD LUCK!!!!

[Jim Yergin]

The shop I used here in Oklahoma to rebuild my straight eight usually rebuilds racing engines. I was able to get them during the off season. I overheard a number of conversations between the owner and distressed customers when I went over for various issues during the rebuild.

My poor New Yorker's engine crank was in sad shape. A previous repair to one piston damaged the crank too much to grind it any further. Bearings are incredibly to find for the L8's, and there are two sizes to boot. The shop flash welded the crank, and ground it to "original" size ($895.00). There are plenty of originals--just the one ones typically needed after a rebuild are scarce as hen's teeth.

They can re-sleeve nearly anything. One customer had a hole in the water jacket of his engine--according to the customer--the size of his fist. The owner said that it was probably too big to repair. His son said that it would not be a problem, and proceeded to take the block to the back of the shop.

So, if the block is important to you, check with a respected shop in your area before you panic. Of course, cost may be a may be a factor. But, what the heck, it can't hurt to ask.

GOOD LUCK!!!!

Gary,

Thanks for the tip. I am not wedded to this particular block but it is good to know there are options if I can't use my spare block.

Jim Yergin

[Rodney Bullock]

Jim, I have a great machinist. I can give you his number and he can help you. I fgeel so bad about what happened. My machinist can do amost anything. My Studebaker motor was in horrible shape. I had two bad clyinders and he sleeved both. He is in capital hts Maryland. His name is Roy Chambers and his number is 301-350-8408 The most important thing is He will help you after the sale. I think he is the best out there. You tell him I sent you:)

[Jim Yergin]

Rodney,

Thanks for the information. Luckily I have a machinist locally who is very good and is also very trustworthy. It would be something else if I had never done a rebuild before but having done it once allows me to know it can be fixed. At least I am not laying up the car in the middle of the prime driving season.

Jim Yergin

[Normspeed]

That's a rough break Jim. The piston remains might tell a story. It's such an unusual type of failure in flathead sixes, I have to make a wild guess and say defective piston broke apart.

[Rodney Bullock]

Rodney,

Thanks for the information. Luckily I have a machinist locally who is very good and is also very trustworthy. It would be something else if I had never done a rebuild before but having done it once allows me to know it can be fixed. At least I am not laying up the car in the middle of the prime driving season.

Jim Yergin

That's good to hear Jim, That makes it alot easier. What you are going though is my fear as well. I have had many motors rebuilt.The health of the motor is very important.

I remember once the trans am motor was rebuilt and it had a wrist pin knock when I got it back in the car. There was something that broke off and went into the motor. It ruined the number 4, 8 clylinder. The machine shop was saying I had to remove the motor. I did and they indicated that they were not responsible. I called the place I got the pistons from (Summit racing) and they said they would replace everything in the motor. after hearing this the machine shop said they would machine and sleeve all cylinders that were affected. I have had it on the road ever since and that was 1989. I remember thinking how money was so tight then, childen where small and daycare was very expensive. It all seemed impossible to fix however it worked itself out. Times have changed. All motors since then have been supported by very competent mechanics that know my fear up front and help to ensure that that won't happene to me again. You and I know that anything can happen to these cars at anytime.

[Jim Yergin]

Spoke to a mechanic about the destruction of my piston. He suggested that it could be the result of detonation. My quick research on that topic indicates that detonation can be caused by too much advance or too lean a mixture. Does anyone have an opinion about this? I was running the engine at about 4' BTDC. I have never been able to get it to idle at a low speed but could not find a vacuum leak. Maybe I had one that caused the mixture to be too lean. The mechanic had never heard of detonation causing a complete destruction of a piston. Maybe it was a combination of a defect in the piston reacting to the detonation.

Jim Yergin

[Normspeed]

Jim, I don't think 4 degrees BTDC could be enough to be a problem. I've been running my rebuilt motor at 4 degrees for thousands of miles, no problems, no pings or knocks.

[Don Coatney]

There are a lot of variables from one engine to the next. At 4 degrees advance my engine sounds like I dumped marbles down the throat of the carburetors when I pull a long steep hill. I run at 0-1 degrees advance on my engine.

[james curl]

I was running mine at 10 degrees BTC when I took the 4800 mile trip in 2007 and it beat the wrist pin bushings out of #5&6 pistons as well as breaking the top ring on both pistons. I ran the engine as high as 3600 rpm coming home on I-10 in west Texas where the speed limit is 80 MPH for hours, about 375 miles worth. The rest of the time we crusied at 3200 to 3400 rpm. I now have mine set lower.

[Joe Flanagan]

James, did you do all this with the stock transmission?

[james curl]

Yes but I have a 90 Dakota 3.55:1 rear end in my car which helps.

[martybose]

There are a lot of variables from one engine to the next. At 4 degrees advance my engine sounds like I dumped marbles down the throat of the carburetors when I pull a long steep hill. I run at 0-1 degrees advance on my engine.

You could run more initial timing and everything would be fine if you ran manifold vacuum instead of ported vacuum.

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Marty, who runs 4 degrees and manifold vacuum ........

[Don Coatney]

You could run more initial timing and everything would be fine if you ran manifold vacuum instead of ported vacuum.

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Marty, who runs 4 degrees and manifold vacuum ........

Marty;

When I had the marbles it did not matter as my vacuum advance pot was not working.