Cpt.Fred Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 when i fired up on the weekend for the first time after putting new wires into my P10, i saw that i still had fuel leaking out under the car. i had thought it would be fixed with new tubing down there, but it appears to be the fuel pump itsself. where can i buy a decent gasket kit? does any of you run an electric fuel pump and do they exist for 6V? thanks! frederic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I would think without a doubt that in Germany there would be a need and market for 6 volt electric pumps for early VW and Porsche applications..they do exist here in the US and locally available for about 60.00 a hit not sure of the additives in gasoline in your operating area but getting a rebuild kit with the material to meet the need to survive the alcohol additives here in the state rules NOS stuff totally out of the picture. your location does make this a poser for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 hmm, so maybe i just go straight on to the electric version, might even be better though it's not original... do i need a metering block for that to keep the pressure steady, or some kind of valve? i guess i must also look at the supply rate. i'll let you know if i find anything suitable. thanks! fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 i just found new pumps at kanter, must have skipped them the last time. what's the difference between single and double action pumps and do they both fit on my 201? kanter says they do, 39-50 they have written on their site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 i just found new pumps at kanter, must have skipped them the last time.what's the difference between single and double action pumps and do they both fit on my 201? kanter says they do, 39-50 they have written on their site. Dual action is for vehicles, like my Dodge, that have vacuum wipers. Single action is for vehicles with electric wipers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Fred, as a rough guide all the plymouth/dodge pumps from the late 30's thru to the late 50's are the same, the differences are that the single action pumps are just that, one action, they only are fuel pumps, the bodies are sometimes a different shape but all have the same 2 hole flange with the bolts at an angle to each other, all should bolt onto any 6 block, the only other difference is where the inlet & outlet holes are, which may maen you might have to redo yout fuel in or out lines to mate up with the holes on the pump body.........the double action pump also have a larger body built onto the top of the fuel pump body that the vaccuum line for the wipers runs from, again all the pumps should fit on all the blocks but whether the various fuel in/out and/or vaccuum lines fit is something you'd have to check or modify........I have a late 50's plymouth pump that I will run on my 41 plymouth.......andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 thanks, guys! are all wipers built that way or is there any chance of having another system? i realized the vaccum line is cut off in my car, wanted to fix that next week anyway. i haven't seen anything on my fuelpump yet that would fit your description, so maybe someone equipped the car with a single action pump and disabled the wipers... if i decide to go electric, can i get a vaccum source from the intake or anywhere else? i'll drive with rainex anyway, but only for getting street legal and for the sport of it i'd like to have my wipers working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 A dual action fuel pump is not required to run the vacuum wipers. But it would help a lot. I have a single action fuel pump but have installed a vacuum canister to store vacuum. This also helps a lot with the wipers. Before I installed the cannister my wipers would go to very slow or stop whenever I opened the throttle. Now I can get 4-5 good swipes before the wipers slow down. I bought the cannister on eBay for less than ten bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 i've seen those before, looks really helpful. do you still get your vacuum from the fuel pump if it's a single action? maybe i could just let the pump run dry for the vaccum and install the electric pump for the fuel transportation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claybill Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 frederic...... 1..check search posts for ..electric fuel pump. 2... the vac cannister is a nice plus, but get the rest straight first. 3...almost ALL flatheads have the single action getting vac from manifold. no problem. 4... sometimes convertibles had the dual action for more pull for the operation of the top. 5..there are 2 types of electric pumps..diaphragm type (bellows) and solid state (electronic) electronic definitely the way to go....6v is out there. search the past threads. 6...definitely better to have the electronic pump RUN THRU THE mechanical one with a switch under dash. use the electronic for starting, then switch off and continue on manual pump. get them both working. all fuel pumps seem to fit for all flathead ply sixes..no worries..$50 you can still get the ones with glass float bowls too. but most just eliminate the bowl. SAVE THE GLASS ETC...a valuable piece. also there are many used ones around. ?? why did I do the number thing..???? have fun.! bill, near chicago USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKB Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) Your wipers do not need to run off a fuel pump or have a cansiter to operate. Most vacuum wipers have a short steel line (10 centimeters roughly) running from the top of the intake manifold which in turn is joined to a flexible tube that runs to the wiper motor. That is the most common way to set up the wipers. Edited August 25, 2009 by RobertKB spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT-47P15 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 On my Plymouth engine, this is where the vacuum line for the wipers comes from the manifold. The curved tube coming from the base of the carb, running into a short rubber hose, then on into the muffler looking item with silver tape on it. That muffler is only found on a convertible--which has a vacuum operated top--and I'm not really sure what it does. A hose comes out the top end of that muffler, runs thru the firewall, and the wipers are connected to the line. Any other type car would just have a hose from the curved tube. Hope this helps a little. I only have a single action fuel pump and no cannister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 i've seen those before, looks really helpful.do you still get your vacuum from the fuel pump if it's a single action? maybe i could just let the pump run dry for the vaccum and install the electric pump for the fuel transportation. Vacuum source is the intake manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Fred if you want to keep your mech pump check out antique auto celler (seller) they sell rebuild kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Actually Ed it's Antique Auto Parts Cellar or Then and Now Automotive. I agree with Ed here. They have very reasonable priced rebuild kits that are compatable with today's fuels. I don't know their international shipping policies, but it may be worth contacting them. Here's their web link. http://www.maritimedragracing.com/then_and_now_automotive.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 thanks guys:) as always, you're a great help! i love this forum:cool: i guess after reading all your statements i will go on like this: i'll defenitely go for a electric pump, pierburg sells them over here. no real 6V anymore, but they have all operation data in their technical sheets for the 12V pumps so i guess i can just run them on 6V OR 12V, just have to check volume and pressure and buy the right one big enough for my engine when run on 6V. at the moment i cannot let the electric one run through my old mechanical pump, because its leaking like hell. but i'll go for a rebuild kit and contact those antique guys today. thanks for the link! i'll check for that vaccum source on the intake, haven't seen anything so far. amazing that they were operating those convertible tops with that small pump! bill: ???i don't know, but it was easy to read??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Fred.......if you decide to run an electric fuel pump I'd be careful about running it in conjunction with the stock mechanical pump if the mechanical pump leaks as if the mech pump has a leaking diaphram or leaking seals it may let fuel into the engine crankcase which is not a good thing..........if you use an electric pump then make sure its mounted correctly, ie, if its a "pusher" pump then mount at the rear, if its a "sucker" pump then mount at the front........also one thing that might help if you decide to search for an electric wiper is that all mid 30's to mid 50's Australian Mopars and as far as I know Mopars sold in England had electric wipers, I think the English cars used 12volts from the 1940's.......if you have vaccum wipers there should be a small, thin vaccum hose going from the carburetor or intake manifold into the firewall somewhere..............andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I looked in my information regarding my 1939 Desoto and all of the cars that were sent overseas were set up with 12 volt electricall system. It does not state if it was 12v positive or negative. If you are using a single stage pump then my 39 desoto uses an AC 588 fuled pump that has the glass sediment bowel. ANy good parts storge should beable to get a 588 FP since these were and are still being used on industrial engined that run the tree grinding engines. I fould the orginal AC model number tag htat was on my engine. When you go to a flea market stop by a fuel pump rebuilder and inquirer to which FP fits your car. These guys will provide you with the information free of charge that s how you get the info about your cars or trucks. Do not be afraid to ask the vendors they want to help because if you establish a conversation with them they might have other parts for your vehicle. Rich Hartung Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 hey guys, i just managed to find a Pierburg pump that will suit my needs and is running 6V as well. i don't want to change to 12V for nostalgic reasons, plus my wiring is all new and my lights are really bright now, so no problems on that end. i ordered the little fellow just a minute ago and will hopefully get it by tomorrow. good tip with the flow direction andy! but i guess it will be a pusher and i just bolt it to the frame right underneath the gas tank. good thing with the 6V is, that will only have an operating pressure of about 0.3 bar, so i won't need a metering block or anything else. i'm thinking about a kill switch, though. heard some nasty stories about electric pumps and accidents... i'll head back to the garage in the evening, then ill find out about the vaccuum source. many thanks again! fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claybill Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 is the peirburg pump a solid state or a diaphragm/bellows type?\ if you fix and retain the mechanical pump, you can install a switch cut-off to the electrical pump when not needed. good idea. bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Fred, that pusher/sucker thing may not apply to your pump but check to make sure.......andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 is the peirburg pump a solid state or a diaphragm/bellows type?\ I have asked this question many times before. What is a "solid state" pump? How does it work? Solid state means no moving parts such as a solid state relay (SSR) compared to a point contact relay. I have worked with a lot of different kinds of pumps in my industrial maintenance management working career. Gear (positive displacement) pumps such as the oil pumps in your engine. Rotor (non positive displacement) pumps such as your belt driven water pumps that allow slippage past the rotor, Diaphragm/bellows (non positive displacement). Peristaltic pumps that use a “squeeze” tube to move fluid with pulses. Progressive cavity pumps such a “MOYNO” or screw type air and refrigerant compressor pumps. But I do not have a clue what a “solid state” pump is nor how it works and why it is better? Enlighten me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james curl Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Would solid state be circuit board? I have heard people refer to circuit boards as solid state electronics. I have seen electrical devices that state that they are solid state. Lets see if Tim Adams will weigh in here since he works as an electronic tech and should know what the term means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 look here for more info on the pierburg pump: http://www.ms-motor-service.com/ximages/pg_pi_0034_de_web.pdf it's the EF1 on top of page 3, translator says it's called a sliding vane or vane type pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 solid state pumps do not have motors or bruhses, gears or vanes..the unit is basically an osciallator device, thus the solid state.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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