correct valve tappet clearances (cold and hot)

[n1gzd_plymouth]

My 1936 Plymouth has a 230 CI engine from a T310 Dodge truck from early 50's. I have not found proper documation yet for the valve clearances (cold anyway). I want to get the valve clearances in the ball park before I run the engine. What intake and exhaust valve tappet clearances should I use?

I am hoping to do this tomorrow morning. Today I set them but I think that I used the incorrect numbers.

Thanks.

Rebecca

[n1gzd_plymouth]

I should mention that so far, cold, I set intake and exhaust both to .014. I was thinking that this seems too much for the intake.

Rebecca

[steveplym]

Here is what is in the manual.

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[n1gzd_plymouth]

thanks. What manual is that?

I need to get one that more closely matches my engine.

I bought a Dodge truck manual but I can't find any mention of cold tappet clearances.

I will fix these initial clearances tomorrow.

However, I am a little confused about one thing.

I found this tech tip:

http://www40.addr.com/~merc583/mopar/framesets/techtipframeset.html

I have some questions:

I have not yet found the timing mark but I found top dead center by turning the engine (counterclock wise as pictured looking at the engine from the front of the car) until the rotor pointed at the the distributor cable that goes to spark plug #1. At this point cylinder #1 appears to have both valves closed (because the springs look even and I can fit the feeler gauge between both of them. I have not yet verified that this is in in the right position by seeing where it is compared to the timing mark. Is it on the ring gear or on the balancer (front of the engine?).

anyway, my question is this, the tech tip mentioned above said that the rotor should appear to be at 7:00. It kind of looks like 11:00 to me. If I turn it to the next position on the rotor indeed it appears that cylinder #1 valves close.

Another question. In the tech tip, there is a mention of Stage A and Stage B. I am a little confused about that. Also why are there 5 numbers instead of 6?

Rebecca

[Harvey Tank]

I went by the tech tip, you mentioned. use the clearances it call for. some of the guys here on the forum just add. theres cold and called it a deal. but I add. mine cold then hot. so far everything is great. runs and sounds like a sewing machine.

that is a little confusing about stage A and stage B. its not realy if you read it close and think about. I will try to explane it.

stage A #1 and #6 are at TDC # 1 is at fireing position with rotor @ 7 oclock with the wire going to #1 also on the harmonic balancer it will be at TDC mark. also make sure the cam lobs are down OK. now for

Stage B you will notice it sayes that #1 and # 6 are at TDC but this time its # 6 that is at fireing position.

so this is where you start.

Stage A you add. both of the valves on # 1 becauce both valves are closed, the cam lobs are bown. you should be able to get your feeler guage under the tappets. add. both in take and exhust. with out turning the motor over you can go right down the line.

#2 in stage A you only add. the intake OK.

then #3 exhaust only.

#4 intake.

#5 both valves Thats Stage A

now you have to get #6 to TDC firing turn the motor over untell rotor is pointing at 1 oclock. you can veryfie this by takeing the little plug out that is drictly over the #6 piston. as you are turning the motor over use a little screw driver to tell when #6 is TDC here again check the cam lobs to make sure they are down with your feller guage. now look at the chart again at Stage B

you will notice it sayes to start with #2 add. both valves intake and exhust.

even though you have all ready add. #2 intake. do it again. both valves.

#3 this time add.intake.

#4 add. exhaust.

#5 add. intake

#6 add. both valves

this way you only have to turn the motor over once. not a whole bunch of times. remember to identify the exhaust from the intake. I made that mistake and had to start all over.

Hopes this helps.

[Don Coatney]

To find TDC there is a plug in your head directly above the #6 piston as

pictured. Remove this plugn and insert a straw or piece of wire long enough

that it will not fall in. Rotate the engine until both valves on number 1 are

closed and then slowly continue to rotate the engine until there is no more

movement from the straw. This will give you TDC for the number 1 piston as

number 1 and number 6 are on the same "through" on the crankshaft.

[n1gzd_plymouth]

Ok. I understand what the tip is saying now. There is a similar procedure described in the 1050-1959 Motors manual except that the 2 stages lists are different.

The Motors manual seems to list hot intake and exhaust for 230 CI as .010 for both intake and exhaust. (and .008 and .010 for the smaller engines).

The B-3 truck manual (I don't think tha this is the truck series that had my engine but they have 230 CI in that book so I was looking at it) lists .010 for intake hot and .014 for exhaust hot. They also have a number called "clearance to check timing (cold)" for which .014 was listed. They did not list intake and exhaust. This is where I got the idea to adjusted all of my valves to .014. I think that this is what I did but I did not use the "stages" method from the tech tips. I turned the engine to each firing position on the rotor and adjusted both each time. I can see why this is not the best way to do it especially since I did it by turning the flywheel from under the car. On my 36 plymouth you can't really turn the engine unless you have a hand crank handle which I have not found yet.

Only regular feeler gauge this time around (not "go-no-go"). I will get one and use it for the hot adjustment later. I am just using my regular one and adjusting it so that it drags a little (with the oil wiped off as much as possible).

What is the reference for 12'0clock on the distributor? I must be using he wrong reference. If I stand on the left side of the car and face the engine the distributor is in front of me and I am facing 12:00 (the part of the distributor that is closest to the engine is 12:00). Is this wrong? If it is then it explains why my distributor position is different than what is described. If I turn the engine so that the rotor contact points to the #1 cylinder wire then indeed I can get the feeler gauge between the gap in both intake and exhaust #1 valve gaps. I then turned the engine so that it pointed to the next one in the firing order on the distributor (#5 in clockwise order around the distributor). Then I adjusted the valve gap for the intake and exhaust of #5. I continued through the firing order setting both for each cylinder.

I have new cover gaskets. the tip says use sealer. I did not see a mention of that in motors. What type of sealer do I use? A tiny film of Indian Shellac? I assume I don't bother with this until I am done with these itterations.

So this tech tip (and my motors manual) describes that you can actually do it with one initial engine turn plus one additional turn if you know which ones are off the cam at the same time. The procedure in the motors manual has a very different bank A and B. I guess they recommend starting in a different position.

I am turning the engine by sitting under the car and yanking the ring gear with my hands. I am turning it counter clockwise as seen by the driver (and this makes the rotor turn clockwise as you look down on it). I think this is correct because the rotor appears to turn in firing order.

Thanks for bearing with me.

Rebecca

[n1gzd_plymouth]

Ok. On another web site I found a specification that you reference the postion of the rotor by clock positions referenced as you would if you were standing in front of the car. By this reference my cylinder #1 valves were on the flat part of the cam when the the rotor was pointing to 7 o'clock. I did not check the timing mark but it seemed right. I will look for the timing mark today.

I really need to find the manual that goes with my engine because every book that I have (motors, 36 plymouth manual, B-3 Truck manual, online sources) says something different for valve clearance numbers and timing. This is one of the drawbacks of having the wrong engine for the car (hard to find the right manual). My engine is a 230 CI engine that says T3IO at the beginning of the part number. I was told that this was an early 50's dodge truck (1 ton I think). I have a 60's manifold set and a later B+B carb that matches that. I hope that I have the right fuel pump (earler engine appears to have lower fuel pressure than 230 CI).

Rebecca

[steveplym]

Looks like some others answered a lot of your questions. The manual I have a photo of is the '46-'54 Plymouth service manual.

[greg g]

Remeber a little loose is a lot better than a bit tight. If they are tight cold, they will get tighter when hot and may lead to having the not completely seat. I would rather listen to a bit of clickity clack than dela with burned valves.

[daddyo23]

Remeber a little loose is a lot better than a bit tight. If they are tight cold, they will get tighter when hot and may lead to having the not completely seat. I would rather listen to a bit of clickity clack than dela with burned valves.

That's how I have mine set now on the '48. One makes a little noise,but, overall they sound good. I went .008 on intake and .010 on exhaust hot. A singe here and there on the arm was worth it.You can usually hear and "feel" at the tailpipe if they're too tight. I think you hear a little clack out of the fuel pump, too. No?

[grey beard]

The problem you'all are batting around here is this: the only spec any of us hve ever seen for adjusting flathead MoPar valves is for a hot setting. That's all the factory gave out, and all I've ever seen posted.

Having said all that, those of us who tell the truth will admit that adjusting these critters hot is veddy difficult to do on an automobile and nigh unto impossible on a B series Pilothouse truck. What most of us do is to use the hot sped and add two or three thou for expansion, and set 'em cold.

I set my own valves at .012 intake and .014 exhaust because that was three more than hot spec. The engine starts and runs fine, and there's never been a valve tap yet. LIke Greg says, better a little loose than ANY tight, cause they tend to burn when too tight. Remember, the only time a valve gets to cool down is when it's closed. This is why too tight makes 'em burn. Don't know about you, but I spend enough time doing things twice to not need another valve job to do, on top of everything else in my life. JMHO

[Jim Saraceno]

the only spec any of us hve ever seen for adjusting flathead MoPar valves is for a hot setting. That's all the factory gave out, and all I've ever seen posted.

If you look at steveplym's post, the factory manual gives specs for cold (.010 intake - .013 exhaust)

I set mine with the engine warm and running, it's not that difficult with a set of go-no go feelers. Then again, I drive a '35 and if you put the front end up on jacks, pull the tire and side pan you have a direct shot into the valve covers. It may be much different with your P15 and it looks next to impossible with some after market headers.

[grey beard]

With so many forum members who need valve adjustments, and with so many experienced MoPar mechanics and restorers, and with so many desk jockeys dispensing pearls of local wisdom, one would think that somewhere, sometime, someplace, somebody would adjust their valves hot, by the book, just like God and Walter P. wanted them adjusted, and then let 'em cool down and remeasure the gaps. AND then, of course come and tell all the rest of us this good-but-hard-to-find news.

Then all the rest of us would know exactly what to set our valves at when cold, without a smidgin' of guesswork, during rebuild or whatever, and we'd all have them exactly right. Now THAT would indeed be good and welcome news on this forum.

What think ye of THIS wisdom, gentlemen?

[Frank Elder]

After setting mine burned, and cold...I'll go for hot, the motor seems to run better, 2 cents

[Don Coatney]

One more curve ball. I have altered the profile of my cam. At the recommendation of the cam grinder I set both my intake and exhaust valve lash at .014" cold. I was not given a "hot" setting. I do not have any tappet noise after 25,000 plus miles of driving.

[Californian]

A word of wisdom was passed my way 40 years ago when I did a valve job on a 51 Ply " better to here them, then to smell them" as far as adjustment ,.010 and .012 hot, Sears still sells the long thin tappet wrenches and for the feeler gauges for hot I snipped off the .010 and the .012 feelers and soldered them to some copper tubing to make some extended gauges for the hot adjustment....

Tom (09)

[Andydodge]

Tom, now thats a neat idea, this is what makes this such a great forum, many thanks for that pearl of wisdom......andyd

[Jim Saraceno]

With so many forum members who need valve adjustments, and with so many experienced MoPar mechanics and restorers, and with so many desk jockeys dispensing pearls of local wisdom, one would think that somewhere, sometime, someplace, somebody would adjust their valves hot, by the book, just like God and Walter P. wanted them adjusted, and then let 'em cool down and remeasure the gaps. AND then, of course come and tell all the rest of us this good-but-hard-to-find news.

I assume that if you could get the proper adjustment cold, Chrysler would have given us the specs for cold. A cold adjustment gets us close, if you want to get them even exact, you need to do them hot (and probably running).

I'm guessing not all tappets and valves are going to expand the exact same amount therefor we would all get slightly different results when we measured them cold after setting them hot. IMHO

An old timer who had given me a lot of good advice told me they didn't use a feeler gauge, they did it by sound because of the problem with the tappets getting worn like this: Unfortunately I don't remember what sound he was listening for but he would tighten the gap until he heard something running different then backed them off "a skoshe".

I never actually took his advice about how to adjust the tappets but I did check my tappet heads and found some had been cupped just like he said, which threw my measurements off by up to double.

[n1gzd_plymouth]

One more curve ball. I have altered the profile of my cam. At the recommendation of the cam grinder I set both my intake and exhaust valve lash at .014" cold. I was not given a "hot" setting. I do not have any tappet noise after 25,000 plus miles of driving.

That is exactly what the Dodge truck manual (for 230 engine) that I am using said to do. It seemed strange but I decided to believe it since the numbers are fairly large. I of course plan on adjusting them again of adjusting thrm again hot after I get the engine running. I just wanted to get them in the ball park because they seemed so far off.

By the way, here are a few pics of the view from below. You can see the 60's manifold set that I am using. It had a lot of vacuum ports in it (4). I am going to use one of them for a vacuum gauge. You can also see that I have a fixed heat riser. I could change that some day but for now I am happy just setting it in "summer mode". I won't drive this car in the winter. I included a pic of my new hoses. The last picture is a picture of my newly painted covers. When I got the car it has studs. However, with these later manifolds, the covers would not fit on with the fuel pump there as well. To get them off (I installed them before installing the manifolds so I did not know about the problem) I had to loosen the fuel pump bolts. Using these stud bolts with little flat handles on them solved my problem (thanks moose). I was going to get these covers chromed but it was too expensive. However, now I am glad that I just painted them. You can hardly see them anyway.

Rebecca

[Life is Good]

Manual for trucks 218 & 230 engine states:

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Life is Good

[Sniper]

You realize this is an 11+ year old thread? 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Not anymore?

[Sniper]

lol, got me there

 

[Jim Saraceno]

While we are on this 11 year old thread... I noticed the picture of my worn tappet got lost so here it is again. If you use a feeler gauge but don't check to see if it is cupped, you're going to be way off.