Aaron Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 As you can see from the picture I have a small leak coming from the brake plate seal on my 48' B1B. Happening on both sides. These are new seals and I am wondering what you guys think. Is this because the seal further in the axel is leaking? My axel vent is not plugged, and I did not overfill with grease. My second question is, if the inner seals are leaking on both sides, how to I get them out to replace? I assume a puller of some type is needed. details would be appreciated. Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Dear Aforests, Jack Car up. Then Remove Wheel, Drum needs to be pulled with a Puller. Then once Brake Plate/Seal Bolts are loose the Axle will pull out/off by hand. Its real easy. Old Seals out with a Seal Puller (Any). Bump new Seals in with Small Block of Wood gently at third points - go slow don't bend/crimp them. Grease em put Axles back on, grease rear wheel bearings, re-install rear Seals Brakes Etc. Piece of Cake. I did mine in one afternoon without trouble. Tom Forgot to add drain pumkin first then refill afterwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Your drums are already off. Now pull off the backing plate assemblies. You probably will need a puller to get the axles out. I've had success with a slide hammer puller, and I've also had some that won't budge with the same puller. On those I've had luck by placing 3/8" drive deep sockets over the axle housing studs, then put the brake drum back over the axle shaft. The sockets act as a spacer to hold the drum away from the axle housing. Now put the nut back on and tighten it up to pull the axle out. Be carefull not to tighten the drum back onto the axle shaft or you'll have to use your other puller to get it back off again. You may need to back it all off and add some flat washers under the sockets, or once it starts moving you may be able to use the drum on the axle as a slide hammer. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey beard Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Ever check your rear axle vent, right there on the left side of the differential housing, where the brake flex line joins the tee to each side brake? If that little feller gets plugged with dirt over time, you can change seals till the cows come home and it will still leak when it warms up. JMHO, and worth a quick check - even if you never see the cows again . . . My personal feeling is that the inner rear axle seals are worthless and not needed. All modern rear wheel drive cars allow gear lube into the axle bearings, so we know it won't hurt them. The issue is how to seal the lube from the brakes and backing plate area. I believe the outer seal does this job quite well. I understand these bearings were origihally ment to be greased by hand or with a low presure gun on the fitting port, but gear lube works for a blue million vehicles on the road today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 As in my original post, I did check the axel vent and as far as I can see, it is not plugged with anything. If the outter seals should be good enough to hold the grease, then I've got problems, because both sides (outter seals) are leaking the same amount. Does everyone feel the same about the inner vs. outter seals? Also, they leak from the truck just sitting there. I have driven it at most 1/2 mile just to test out the new brakes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 The outer seal is a lighter seal designed to hold the grease in but more for keeping dirt out. The inner seal is designed to keep the axle oil in the axle and out of the wheel bearings. If you are getting oil leaking out at the outer seal, then the inner ones have failed and contaminated your bearing grease. Also, how is your bearing adjustment? if the bearings are a little loose there may be enough movement to allow the axle shaft to move radially causing seal leakage. I highly recommend pulling your axles, replacing both inner and outer seals, repacking your bearings, and readjust the bearing preload upon reassembly. The bearing preload is adjusted with the shims between the brake plate and the axle housing. I got my seals from Napa. They are SKF seals, part numbers 14423 & 14359 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gaspard Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 I discovered my axle vent when I was replacing my brake lines. I could see the axle turning through the hole in the vent. Is there supposed to be a cap on the vent to keep out debris. I attached a rubber PVC nipple to the vent, but now I'm worried it will not "vent" if capped. What is the purpose of the vent. I thought it was some kind of overflow vent. I could look at my parts manual but I love to hear comments from the forum. Jim in Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Yes there should be a cap on it, but it needs to breathe. They normally have a small tin cap crimped over the end. When it's clean and breathing normally you can wiggle and rotate the cap, but it doesn't come off. The reason for the breather is to displace air as the axle temperature changes. When you drive your truck/car the gears splashing around and chomping up the oil makes it warm up. When the oil warmes up the air in there also warmes up. As air, and oil, warm up they expand. If the breather can't allow the expanding air to escape the pressure builds up inside the axle and eventually it'll push past the seals, usually taking oil with it. Then when you park again and things cool off, the air contracts and would pull a slight vaccume, but since there's a breather on the axle the ambient air can refill into the axle. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Ok Merle that was about what I thought the reason for it was. So does a manual tranny have a vent too? I would think the 90w in there would do the same thing and create pressure as you drove? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Some gear boxes are designed to handle the pressure. I don't recall ever seeing a breather on a manual trans in a car or pickup. If you want to know if pressure builds up in there, pull out the level plug after a good long drive. I've had many sealed gear cases that will either spit at you or suck air in when you remove the level plug to check them. It all depends on if they are warmer or cooler than when the plug was tightened the last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gaspard Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Thanks that's a new one for me. I had no idea it existed. I will look on my parts truck to see if the axle vent cap is still there. If not, I will have to improvise. Jim in Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Thanks for the excellent information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Looks as though the bearing should come out with the axle when it is pulled??? What does the slide hammer puller look like that you use to pull the axle? Your drums are already off. Now pull off the backing plate assemblies. You probably will need a puller to get the axles out. I've had success with a slide hammer puller, and I've also had some that won't budge with the same puller. On those I've had luck by placing 3/8" drive deep sockets over the axle housing studs, then put the brake drum back over the axle shaft. The sockets act as a spacer to hold the drum away from the axle housing. Now put the nut back on and tighten it up to pull the axle out. Be carefull not to tighten the drum back onto the axle shaft or you'll have to use your other puller to get it back off again. You may need to back it all off and add some flat washers under the sockets, or once it starts moving you may be able to use the drum on the axle as a slide hammer. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Well, today I got both axle's pulled along with the worn out inner seals. It took me awhile to figure out a good way to pull them, but found an excellent one. Attached is a picture showing how I did it. Worked Great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 That's 'zactly how I did mine. Good job. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I have the new inner seals in, packed the bearings and put the axles back in. I used to be able to grap the end of the axle and easily turn it with my hand, but now I have to put the hub on and it still turns pretty hard! Is this normal?? Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Did you put all of the shims back in behind the brake backing plate? These shims set the bearing preload. It sounds like you may have them too tight now. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I noticed after putting the last axle in and pounding the race in that's when the axle got hard to turn. Could I have pounded the race's in too far? I wanted them to be flush with the axle housing... There is one shim behind each backing plate. Not sure I fully understand the significance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 The bearing race needs to be seated against the backing plate. Driving the race in can put a preload on the brg and make it turn hard. Driving it that way will burn the brg up. Get the slide hammer back out and pop it a few times without removing the backing plate. The brg will puill the race out and seat it against the backing plate and you should then be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Blake Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I had a problem with inner seals leaking, turned out the seals were not in far enough. There is a lip in the housing the have to be installed to.This could also be why the bearings are tight turning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaloo11 Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Well, today I got both axle's pulled along with the worn out inner seals. It took me awhile to figure out a good way to pull them, but found an excellent one. Attached is a picture showing how I did it. Worked Great. What is the metal ring your puller is grasping? Is it just a large washer? A few large washers? I would think they would bend and the puller would come off. Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 What is the metal ring your puller is grasping? Is it just a large washer? A few large washers? I would think they would bend and the puller would come off.Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic. On my 1933 all I did was put the drum back on and then pull on the drum by hand to get the axle out. I don't recall the axle being in very tight only that you needed a way to get a grip on it without damaging anything. It is not like pulling the drum off the axle. That, in my experience, always requires a good drum puller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 It is just a heavy duty washer with a smaller one in front of it. Combined with the puller it worked great, didn't phase the washers. There is no way I could pull my axles out by hand grabbing onto the drum. The bearing race is in way too tight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey beard Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 You can buy a new slide hammner thru Amazon/com for fifty bucks - a five-pound tool that is very nice - just got mine yesterday. The threads on the puller are 5/8-inch national fine. I went to the hardware store and bought a new nut that size and welded the nut to an old axle nut - the one that holds the drum on. Then I screwed this welded double nut on the end of the puller and the end of the axle, and was able to pull the axles very easily. It;'s important to know that you must first remove the large axle key from the end of the shaft before you pull the backing plate, because the seal on the plate will not pass the key. If you try to do this with the key in place you will immediately damage the outer seal in the plate. The shop manual even tells you to protect the keyway slot in the axle so the new seal will not be cut when slid ovcer the axle shaft end. Please understand that these axle bearing shims are critical. Adjustment is pretty straight-forward, but you must understand that it must be checked any time an axle or bearing is changed. You want just a little end play on the axle but almost no preliad. This all needs to be chacked after the axle and seals are installed, but before you hook up any brake lines, so you can pull the backing plate off the cnange shims as needed. It'll take a few tries to fet it right. AND don't forget to pack that axle bearing just like you would do a front wheel bearing - it's the only lube these bearings ever get. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 One of my concerns on my '48 is the inner bearing race that could be removed from the axle housing with my pinky finger, that seemed just a tad too loose to me as the left side was a bit more snug. At the 5000 mile mark, I had gear oil in the axle bearings, first spotted when gear oil was on the backing plates accumulating gravel road dust. I cleaned all that up and put another 5000 miles on the beast, same result: a very slow seep of gear oil into the axle bearings. I don't recall any shims being present, so I reckon that's gonna need to be addressed; anyone know the thicknesses I should make or a supplier? I'm kinda thinkin' that there's a slight neck on my axle shafts that is allowing the gear oil to get past the inner seals, dunno if that can be sleeved or not. Anyhow, just wonderin' if anyone had run into the loose race issue. I'm not sure if I can make a 'sleeve' for the race/axle housing since I don't know the exact ID of the housing. When I tear the '48 apart in a few weeks, this is one of my priorities to address as I don't want to be motoring into town someday and lose a wheel to a busted axle shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.