squirebill Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Have a '49 B1B. Looking for photos of the throttle return spring anchor points. Also a photo of the set up for the attachment of the throttle pull knob cable at the carb. Also the brake system junction block that the line from the master cylinder would connect to and the approximate location in frame. Any recommendation where I might find the brake junction block....looked at Roberts and Bernbaum but didn't see it listed. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P15-D24 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 The end of the spring (14-06-1) mounts to a cotter pin head in the floorboard straight behind the throttle linkage. (I'm not kidding!) THe brake junctions are hard to find. Try searching with the mopar parts number. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted August 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Thanks for the picture of the throttle linkage. Attaching to the cotter pin in the floor board is a funny as what I have now....the return spring comes off the top hole of the bracket/lever of the carb throttle plate shaft and goes to a bent loop on the end of a piece of clothes hanger with the other end of the clothes hanger going through a hole in the inner fender and bent to keep it there. Crude but effective....maybe I'll just keep it as a conversation piece. Where did the attached picture come from......is it from the "Parts Manual" for the truck? Since I don't seem to be able to find the four point junction block or a brass inverted flare "cross" , guess will go with two "tee" fittings for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffy49 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 I'm switching to a dual chamber master cylinder and modern brakes (with rear abs) on my 49, let me see if the junction block is any good. And I'll try to get a pic of the carb with the cables attached, have not pulled the dead 218 out yet and all the cables are still hooked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 I don't have any pictures for you right now, but GT is correct. The spring connects as shown in the parts page picture, and to the head of a cotter pin that goes through a hole in the front floor pan piece. It sure seemed cheesy to me too, but that's how it is. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) This is the clearest picture of the correct throttle spring set up I currently have. Using a fender washer and cotter pin makes for a happy combination. My old throttle lever worked but was not correct for my truck. I think it may have been an aftermarket make it work for your application or something like that. (Please someone insult me about my vacuum line so I do something about it) Shown here is the correct throttle linkage arm I recently got from Keven. The stainless steel springs I got from DesotoDav really make a difference (pedal pressure) from the rusty old (probably Ace hardware) Mickey Mouse spring I originally had. The "Goofy but historically correct" side spring allows the idle control lever to seat where it should without having to push my throttle knob in manually on the dash every time I stop at a light. My truck idles at about 500 rpm now. Hank Edited August 30, 2013 by HanksB3B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted August 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Guys...thanks for all the input. Looks like it was half correct with the spring going from the top hole of the throttle plate shaft lever over to the inner fender. I am missing Spring 14-06-1 and Lever 14-17-1. (Reference the picture in reply #2) Truck was operating fine with just the "side spring" and no Push/Pull throttle set up. Can anyone explain what spring 14-14-4 does. Only thing I can figure is it may give a slight delay for throttle plate actuation.....something like a mechanical dashpot. Any other thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 That one is for a little give, when your throttle is WFO and you're still mashing down on the pedal, you won't put too much stress on the throttle shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 FWIW, notice in the shop manual diagram that the rod 14-11-9 is straight. Also note that the bell crank opening on the throttle shaft is almost the same opening as for the rod 14-14-3, not a small opening for a spring. My guess is that bell crank opening is for a linkage used on a governor as these Ball&Ball carbs were used on different applications, and there is no part number given in the parts manual for this second spring. When all linkages and control cables are within specifications and lubricated adequately, the throttle application is smooth and responsive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desotodav Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Search 'throttle spring' for more info. I have attached a few photos which may help you out... bear in mind that mine is a right-hand-drive truck in Oz though... Hank still has some sets of stainless steel throttle linkage springs that I sent him - PM him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 I had the correct linkage but was missing these springs. I mistakenly thought I could get by with just a cobbled together lower spring arrangement. After all that cotter pin through the floor board looks as if it couldn't possibly work right? Well I was wrong it works really well when you have the correct arrangement and components including the side spring. I could not get my dash pot equipped carb to settle into a steady idle until I made the effort to put all this together as it was intended. Thanks go out to Davin and Hank for these items. Hank as requested That vacuum line looks hideous! In fact I am shocked and dismayed by it and by the lack of a glass bowl type fuel filter.....and what's this? a rubber fuel line between the fuel pump and the carb?......OMG! Fix it.....Fix it....Fix it! Hope this helps. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) additional information - routing brake and gas lines Vintage Power Wagons has a used brake line tee listed in their catalog, although the pic shown doesn't look quite the same as the ones used on the B-Series. Edited May 2, 2021 by JBNeal revised information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P15-D24 Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Where are you guys doing with the spring that goes to the fender wheel well? It's not stock and I have driven my B1 with just the stock springs for over a decade with no issues. So what does it do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted August 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 In my case, the spring going from the carb throttle plate lever to the inner fender well was the only spring on it when I bought it circa 1972 as a daily driver. Parked the truck in 1976/77 and am just now trying to de-mothball it. As I remember, there was no problem driving the truck with just this spring, just looked a little tacky, so I asked the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 GTK; Actually I was very sceptacle about this to begin with. Now I have no doubt that the side spring does belong there. There is even a hole in the splash well similar to the one in the floorboard for the same cotter pin attachment. It lines up with this part of the linkage perfectly. Installing it recently on my truck allowed me to finally obtain a steady and consistant idle speed. My truck has the DTG1 dashpot carb for a fluid drive and I struggled to get it set correctly for quite a while. After installing these springs and readjusting the idle it now behaves like I expected it to all along. Before I put it on I would have to fiddle around with the idle almost each time I ran it. It was also harder to start. I was convinced I had a problem with the carb but could never pinpoint the problem. It sure is working fine now ... and the pedal has a much more progressive feel to it as well. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 without that spring, the throttle can get wonky and sometimes stick OPEN, I learned fast to install it on one of my engine test runs...throttle stuck wide open! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desotodav Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Where are you guys doing with the spring that goes to the fender wheel well? It's not stock and I have driven my B1 with just the stock springs for over a decade with no issues. So what does it do? I initially thought that the throttle linkage spring to the inner guard didn't belong GTK, but then I saw numerous other trucks over a period of years (both in USA and here in Oz) with that spring fitted. I'm now thinking that that spring may have been fitted to the trucks in the old days, but possibly anyone's guess as to whether it was fitted by the factory or the dealer? I am very pleased with the way that spring works on my truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirebill Posted September 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Having gone thru the above replies again: From HanksB3B, reply #6 I get the impression DesotoDave is a source for stainless steel throttle springs, both the one that goes to the floor board and also the controversial one that goes to the inner fender. Also,"Keven" is a source for throttle linkage arms. Is this correct? Also, JBNeal, thanks for the lead for your photos of the brake junction block. Having now seen it, have a better idea what I'm looking for. Although that big "hoopty-do" of the line coming out of the top of the block looks a little strange. Being the high point of the system, seems like it should have a bleed fitting there. Will see what Vintage Power Wagons has but may stick with just two tees running along the lower flange of the frame channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 that top line goes up, then back down to go under the motor mount, then back up & turns to the frame to line up with the right front brake line that mounts to the frame. It probably doesn't need to go that high, and I didn't use that much line when I replaced the ones on the '48. As for that right side inner fender hole that extra spring is being anchored, that hole was probably there for a couple of other reasons: the blanks used when stamping these left side & right side inner fenders have the same hole patterns, or that hole is used as a mounting point for the fresh air kit duct. A sticking throttle might be indicative of slight wear in the linkage assembly, which can be a cumulative effect: each little part, with a little wear & a little corrosion on it, will bind up when put in certain positions as the factory return spring may not be strong enough to overcome this. There is mention in the shop manual to lubricate all linkages & control cables with light oil periodically to address this. This kind of lubrication is still required on newer vehicles even today...the hood latch on my '02 CTD was sticking a few years ago, so I hit the latch & springs with Liquid Wrench at all the pivot points then worked the oil into the joints by moving the hood up & down almost the full range of its pivot. Then I shut the hood soundly & popped the hood latch from the cab; my hands didn't have that good of a grip on the hood when I opened the hood latch, and that hood dang near caught me under the chin as is sprang open. So good lubrication on the pivot points can do wonders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 The fact that it doesn't show up in the manuals doesn't necessarily make it controversial. There are a few omissions in the manuals. If you go to the trouble of fitting the sidespring up you are not likely to remove it. It works that well. I am totally convinced that the addition of some spring tension on the part of the linkage it attaches to is what solved my idle issues. In retrospect if you study the standard linkage carefully it is pretty obvious it was made to function properly with this spring in place. There are no modifications to the linkage required and even the mounting point on the inner fender is right where it needs to be. And if nothing else is gained.....having the additional spring in place provides a bit of insurance against a stuck throttle. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desotodav Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Having gone thru the above replies again: From HanksB3B, reply #6 I get the impression DesotoDave is a source for stainless steel throttle springs, both the one that goes to the floor board and also the controversial one that goes to the inner fender. Also,"Keven" is a source for throttle linkage arms. Is this correct? I had a small run of stainless steel throttle spring sets made a while back and sent about 6 sets of them over to Hank. I believe that he still has a few sets left. PM him if you are after some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52b3b Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Here in Germany, the ominous spring. 1952 B3B. I have removed it. The throttle shaft in the carb is rebuilded and when the spring pulls on the shaft in 90 degree axis, raze or grind it in the carb. But i will make a test what happen when the throttle is widly open. Greetings Klaus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52b3b Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Is now a different topic. I saw at the foto the fuel pump. Can someone say something to the petrol pump? Now its leaking. What kind of pump and where I get a rebuild kit. Once again greetings Klaus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52b3b Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 And now, now: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Is now a different topic. I saw at the foto the fuel pump. Can someone say something to the petrol pump? Now its leaking. What kind of pump and where I get a rebuild kit. Once again greetings Klaus Klaus, Check with Antique Auto Parts Cellar / Then and Now Automotove for a rebuild kit for your fuel pump. http://www.maritimedragracing.com/antique_auto_parts_cellar.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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