What is wrong with those people????

[Normspeed]

LOL Greg, you subversive rascal. Infiltrating the other camp, covertly passing out P15-D24 cards... Diabolical.

BTW I recently saw an early 30's DeSoto 4 door sedan (4 suicide doors) in a yard, basically all there incluging fenders and original type wheels. It's calling to me. I'm thinking flathead powered fenderless.

[NatesSedan]

I lurked over there for awhile before I saw that I wouldn't ever be welcome there. There is great information and some folks who really know their stuff but I would rather visit the Hamb where they really know how to torch you if you dont qualify for "the club"

I visit the HAMB as well as this site but only post over there to new plymouth owners to direct them here. The Friday Art threads are worth a visit every week as well.

P-15 D-24= Good people sharing their ideas with other good people. That is why I landed here.

POCO POCO POCO POCO POCO.....

[Don Coatney]

I find it interesting that if a known quanity is the asker about modifications the answers come flowing. I probably should not have replied to this POC thread but I thought my experiances may be helpful. However the known quanity has compleately ignored me in his responses. Follow this link.

http://plymouthbulletin.com/smf/index.php?topic=1736.0

Here is another example of the same known quanity ignoring me and letting me know that I am a shade tree engineer.

http://plymouthbulletin.com/smf/index.php?topic=660.0

I am a proud POC-Outcast charter member. I do find it interesting that most of the POC-Outcast charter members have there cars pictures published in the Plymouth Bulletin. Or so I have been told.

[Allan Faust]

Duh.... sorry bout that guys, didn't see the forum right below the login.... and the site is backwards.... looked for the question before I finally saw it at the bottom of the thread.....

I hope 34PE is onboard here so I can welcome him aboard.... as for Jim B and Carla.... I think the biggest fool is one that turns away people without even getting to know them.... they don't give the person a chance to say anything, so they don't even deserve to be even close to a club, let alone lead one....

Jaguar engine??? Kinmont brakes.... now she seems to know something about fads..... probably one o them hippies of the sixties....however, I think her attitude needs more of an adjustment.... I don't know if she's running on all gears....

Allan

[Allan Faust]

And Don.... if it'll make you feel any better, I'd take your shade tree engineering anyday over any rebuilding that them at the POC do.... from the looks of it, their cars are probably a lot more dangerous than ones modified the right way....

Allan

[Don Coatney]

And Don.... if it'll make you feel any better, I'd take your shade tree engineering anyday over any rebuilding that them at the POC do.... from the looks of it, their cars are probably a lot more dangerous than ones modified the right way....

Allan

Thanks Allan;

I needed a good hug:D

[wills 51]

I tried getting the okay to post over there and never got anything back from them..(oh well) I would much rather be a part of this forum where people are open minded, I like original as much as the next guy but never understood tearing someone apart just for asking a question....

[vanbuskirk]

I am offended and distressed by the amount of hostility directed at the POC. The POC provides a structure for people to enjoy their cars. Most POC members do not have trailer cars. About 90% drive to the meets. There are plenty of friendly POC members, just a bunch of people out to have an enjoyable time. Most of the people at last year's very enjoyable tailgate party were POC members in the POC host hotel parking lot. Certainly, without the efforts of POC members, the members of this forum would not be seeing each other, in Detroit, this weekend. There some unpleasant people in the POC. There are some angry unpleasant posters on this board. Can't we all just get along? As I recall, GTK who has supplied us with this forum is a POC member. Bob

PS

Last weekend Wanda and I participated in the Keeneland Concours in Lexington. Most of the 100+ cars were trailered to the show. There were several prizes awarded. I knew in advance that our '54 Plymouth was not going to win a prize, but we very much enjoyed the opportunity to drive 180 miles to be a part of a very fine car show. Here are some pictures:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v136/vanbuskirk/?multi=4

[jd52cranbrook]

I agree, well said.

[greg g]

Bob, fully aware and appreciative of the good folks and the amount of work they do associated with POC and events. Just taken aback by the vehemence in the replies to this fellow especially from a "moderator". (JB)

G

[Normspeed]

I gotta say, the response to Don's brake posting was pretty snooty. Shade Tree??? DOH!!! WHY YOU LITTLE!!!!!

But, when I first got my P24 and hadn't yet realized that this is the best forum for me, I used to post a bit on the old POC forum. I asked a few questions about modifications and I never felt I was being talked down to or insulted, but maybe it went over my head:D

And the SoCal chapter of the POC, some of whom post here, are very open to any and all old Mopars. I've always felt welcome at their events.

[Allan Faust]

Bob, fully aware and appreciative of the good folks and the amount of work they do associated with POC and events. Just taken aback by the vehemence in the replies to this fellow especially from a "moderator". (JB)

G

Greg, I agree with both you and Bob..... and I apologize to the human members of the POC for my outburst..... especially GTK!!!

Allan

[Plymouthy Adams]

to answer the question from Bob..why can't we all get along...we can...but it also takes an attitude that owners are free to do as they wish with their cars and granted...not all cars are a good candidate for keeping stock..that is why I sold my 49..it was stock..should stay stock..was very very nice, wife could not drive it (bought for her)...not my cup of tea..so I sold it or else I would have to do the V8 route...better steering, brakes..stereo..AC..the stuff that makes living life a tad more pleasant (safer) in the deep south at highway speed.

[bob_amos]

Norm, You are right in saying that the Golden State Region (aka: So Cal) is open to all cars. That is one point that the club has talked about over and over again. We love seeing you and your car. I think you know that we all appreciate what you have done with your wagon at our events. Many of the cars in the region are modified. Hey, Tod and Tony C. were the driving force in starting the region. Tod has a stock vehicle and Tony's is modified. I personally love them all but prefer stock. The club has many members with modified vehicles and they are all welcome. These are people that have become very good friends dispite the differences in vehicle choices. So, why can't the people at the National level say that they prefer a stock vehicle and accept the guy that does not. There is no need to call any person names and try to belittle them. I reality, they are belittling themselves with such attacks.

[Captain Neon]

Bob, I have to agree that Ol' Benji stuck his foot in it again. My only gripe w/ POC judging policy is their minimum points requirements. One has to reach a threshold of a certain number of points to be awarded a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in class. I do not know what the specific numbers are, but at some shows the best in class may only be eligible for a third place trophy. Other than that, the POC has certain standards that they use when judging cars. I would much rather be judged on how close I am to being factory correct than by some bone-head judge at a local show awarding a trophy to the '70 Chevelle SS w/ the cleanest engine because he just happens to like Chevelles.

I remember going to a local show where an absolutely beautiful (and rare) '54 Buick Skylark convertible was in the same class as a cookie-cutter '57 Chevy. The '57 Chevy won Best of Show, and the guy who had the '54 Buick that regularly showed Concours (invitation only) at Iola went home empty-handed. Unfortunately, I don't think I ever saw that beautiful Skylark again at a local show.

For myself, when I choose to participate in a show I have never expected a trophy and have never won one. My dad once won a 2nd place trophy and gave it back to the organisers. He told them that he appreciated the recognition, but didn't come for a trophy. In essence, he donated it back for next year's show.

I prefer to drive my cars around, esp. my P15, and see the thumbs-up and hear "Nice Car" comments as I drive to and fro. Much more rewarding to me than spending hours listening to Corvette guys gripe and complain, or people holding preferred spaces for their buddies that show up late.

[bob_amos]

At the last Plymouth Owners Club National Spring Meet held in Santa Maria, Ca. by the Golden State Region we had judging requirements and they were all listed in a manual. I have copies of manuals for all their classes. I don't agree with the multiple 1st places based on a number system. But it is the rules that they play by and can be changed if someone wants to take the time and effort. I guess that some guild lines must be followed in order to have a predetermined goal. I was a judge with the National president as my partner. I learned a lot about the judging and also found it to be fun and easy. When you have a point system and different judges doing different parts of the car you can avoid that favourite car wins syndrome. I agree, there are real winners at local shows and they are over looked because someone was a friend or has the marque the judges prefer. Years ago I had my newly, totally restored Sunbeam Alpine in a National Sunbeam show. I took second place to another Alpine that was painted all sorts of colours. It was something that resembled a clowns make-up. Not close to stock in any way. The owner was real close friends with the judges. They did not use a strict point system. They just had a few guys make the choice and he beat mine. I never went to another of their shows as a result. So, it does happen and often. On the other hand, my '63 Belair won 1st at a local show when there were at least 2 other cars much more deserving. In this case I was a good friend of the judges. I didn't really enjoy that win.

[Tony Cipponeri]

I gotta say, the response to Don's brake posting was pretty snooty. Shade Tree??? DOH!!! WHY YOU LITTLE!!!!!

But, when I first got my P24 and hadn't yet realized that this is the best forum for me, I used to post a bit on the old POC forum. I asked a few questions about modifications and I never felt I was being talked down to or insulted, but maybe it went over my head:D

And the SoCal chapter of the POC, some of whom post here, are very open to any and all old Mopars. I've always felt welcome at their events.

Norm, You blew it now, they didn't know that we were that liberal! They will probably throw The Golden State Region out of The POC now. Tony C

[Normspeed]

Tony I forgot to mention that you guys make me park across the street and I have to be blindfolded so I don't learn the secret handshake.

[Plymouthy Adams]

you've not built up enough points to learn the secret handshake..

[James_Douglas]

It is their car and they can do to it what they please.

That said I think it is a shame to cut up a good car and would urge the owner to sell it and spend the money on a "better" candidate for a hot rod job.

The interesting thing about this topic however is the current state of cars here in California. A full review of the old car licensing programs is going to start soon. I have heard strong whispers that the air quality people want to make all classic cars move to a classic license plate program. It is also being whispered that once that happens then they will put restrictions on the driving of such vehicles. It is also whispered that cars that clearly are not close to original will not be allowed to be registered as classics and will have to pass a smog test.

Given that the above whispers may well come to pass as reality in the next 10 years, I for one will not do anything to a classic car that cannot be quickly switched back. If any of the whispers come true, a modified car will only be worth its parts value.

It pays to think ahead these days if one wants to severely modify a classic car.

James

[Jims50chrysler]

I am offended and distressed by the amount of hostility directed at the POC. The POC provides a structure for people to enjoy their cars. Most POC members do not have trailer cars. About 90% drive to the meets.

My opologies for my past remark regarding the POC having trailer cars I guess I should have looked into the club a little further before I painted everyone with the same brush...much like some of the POC members should look into the construction of some of the street rods out there, the vast majority of these cars are as good or better than new for example the shock relocation on my 50 Chrysler ...this makes for a better than factory handleing car without a doubt.

Engineers are very smart people but just like every one else they can make mistakes or overlook something that will affect the saftey of the car they are designing.....now if you willl excuse me I have to go over to the FPOC (Ford Pinto Owners Club) Try to convince them that they should consider another option for there gas tanks...(I hope I don't get yelled at)

Jim

[Robin (UK)]

.....now if you willl excuse me I have to go over to the FPOC (Ford Pinto Owners Club) Try to convince them that they should consider another option for there gas tanks...(I hope I don't get yelled at)

Jim

Be careful, Jim.

You might get burned!

[james curl]

Most designs are compromised by cost considerations. If cost restraints were not included into the design then the results would be no low cost cars. That is why Rolls Royce cost so much. It is much harder to design parts that can be manufactured fast and cheap than parts with no cost restraints.