lost prime

[busycoupe]

Last weekend I put the battery back into my 48 D24 business coupe to wake it from its winter slumber. A couple of shots of starting fluid down the throat of the carb and if fired up. I took it for ride long enough to get it up to temp. put some gas in it, then back home. I did not have time to take it out during the week, and when I tried to start it today it wouldn't fire until I shot some more starting fluid into the carb. Once started and warmed up I can shut it off and it fires right up again. Is this normal for these cars, or is there something wrong with the carb? The engine runs good, once started; and the accelerator pump seems to work OK. I replaced that accelerator pump, and the fuel pump, last summer. Any ideas?

[FMSPEED49]

My 49 has a rebuilt carb, new fuel pump and lines, and if she sits more than 5 days, you have to crank for better than 20 sec to get fuel back up to the carb.

[busycoupe]

Thanks,

Perhaps it is just the nature of the beast to loose the carb prime.

[cwcars88]

I have the same problem with mine stock unrestored P-15 but the old girl has never failed to start. She is just telling me to drive it every day.

[FMSPEED49]

There has got to be a snake oil fix for this,

cause I need a new science experiment.

[Norm's Coupe]

There has got to be a snake oil fix for this,

cause I need a new science experiment.

You really don't need any snake oil to fix this problem. Just tap your foot to the beat of the music before you try starting the car. It's normal. Prior to starting the car after sitting overnight or several days, you have to pump the accelerator all the way to the floor at least once or twice. Maybe more if it hasn't been started in a long time. If you don't have an automatic choke, you also need to pull the choke cable out to start the car up. You also have to hold the accelerator down about 1/4 way or more or less while starting, depending on how you have the carb set. Once you learn the proper way to start your particular car with it's settings, etc., you should not need the starting fluid.

[FMSPEED49]

"You really don't need any snake oil to fix this problem. Just tap your foot to the beat of the music before you try starting the car."

I think your right, I need a RADIO, that would be the fix.

[greg g]

I think you can blame it on today's fuel formulation especially if you live in an ethanol rich area. I believe it evaporates more quickly than the gas that was gas when it was gas instead of the hydrocarbon soup they serve today.

Why do you think we need all that evaporative recapture stuff on our new cars, and it the pump???

Current car fuel sustems are just about a closed system, where our oldies are basically open to the atmosphere.

[Normspeed]

The carb should be retaining enough gas to start the next time. I would give the accelerator a couple pumps while cranking for just 2-3 seconds, then stop, wait 5-10 seconds and crank it again, Should fire right up.

[grey beard]

The issue is NOT rocket science. You can play around with local wisdom on this topic all day, or take a few minutes and really find out what is going on here.

What it takes is the removal of the carb top - four screws - after the vehicle has been sitting for several days. In a normal healthy carb, fuel should still be present, even after a few days' time. If no fuel is visible, there are a few possibilities:

1. The carb leaks fuel. Indicates the need for a rebuild - especially if it looks wet on the outside or drips fuel when running or after shut-off.

2. Fuel pumps have check valves to keep fuel present in the line between carb and pump. If the check valve fails, lots of extra cranking is reqquird to get fuel delivery started again. With six volt systems, this spells lots of extra load for the battery and starter, each time the vehicle sits for a time prriod. The only fix for this problem is a new pump.

Most fuel systems loose their prime over prolonged sitting, and it is normal for extra cranking to get fuel inro the float bowl if the vehicle has been sitting a long time. Every used car lot in the world has this problem - the longer they sit, the harder they start.

It is for this reason that I use electric pumps to overcome this problem. Just turn on the key and listen to the pump do its thing. Then give it half a pump stroke, a little chole, and Bob's your uncle. JMHO

[Don Coatney]

The issue is NOT rocket science. You can play around with local wisdom on this topic all day, or take a few minutes and really find out what is going on here.

What it takes is the removal of the carb top - four screws - after the vehicle has been sitting for several days. In a normal healthy carb, fuel should still be present, even after a few days' time. If no fuel is visible, there are a few possibilities:

1. The carb leaks fuel. Indicates the need for a rebuild - especially if it looks wet on the outside or drips fuel when running or after shut-off.

2. Fuel pumps have check valves to keep fuel present in the line between carb and pump. If the check valve fails, lots of extra cranking is reqquird to get fuel delivery started again. With six volt systems, this spells lots of extra load for the battery and starter, each time the vehicle sits for a time prriod. The only fix for this problem is a new pump.

Most fuel systems loose their prime over prolonged sitting, and it is normal for extra cranking to get fuel inro the float bowl if the vehicle has been sitting a long time. Every used car lot in the world has this problem - the longer they sit, the harder they start.

It is for this reason that I use electric pumps to overcome this problem. Just turn on the key and listen to the pump do its thing. Then give it half a pump stroke, a little chole, and Bob's your uncle. JMHO

Dave;

Before you aded the electric fuel pump did you correct numbers one and two? And if you did correct numbers one and two why did you need the electric fuel pump?

Fact of the matter is the gasoline formulas used today have a faster evaporation rate than they used to. Carter B&B and Stromberg carburetors by design lend themselves to fast evaporation. Others such as blueskies who are using Carter-Webbers or Holly-Webbers do not have the problem to the degree us using B&B's have.

[Guest 57plymouth]

I've rebuilt my carb, replace the fuel pump, and checked for leaks in the fuel line.

If my car sits overnight, it is a pain to start. I've never had to use starting fluid, but it takes a LOT of cranking.

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, my engine can be the same, rebuilt carb, fuel pump is working well, but if she sits overnight or longer, she takes a bit to start.

I do have an autochoke, it does work, I usually pump the gas once or twice and hold it down a 1/4 of the way, sometimes she needs a 3 to 4 tries then fires right up.

Once started she is good all day, and sometimes longer, infact once started, and you shut her off, just one hit on the starter button and away she goes.

So I do have the B&B carb, does this also sound like something is wrong with my fuel system.

We do not have all ethanol belned gas in our area yet, so hopefully that helps, but I am sure this stuff is coming soon..........Fred

[Young Ed]

I never really have this issue with my pickup or the coupe. Maybe I am just used to how they start. My cars haven't been touched since late oct and I would bet they will both start without any extra help.

[Reg Evans]

All six of my flat 6's need a prime after sitting for a few days. Even my 52 truck converted to 12 volts that spins faster than the 6 volters. 2 are using a Stromberg and the rest are Carters. I am convinced that the only way to start them without opening the hood and priming them is to install an elec. pump.

I have snuck up on some and removed the carb top after a few days of non operation and sure enough the darned float bowls are dry.

[Norm's Coupe]

I never really have this issue with my pickup or the coupe. Maybe I am just used to how they start. My cars haven't been touched since late oct and I would bet they will both start without any extra help.

And thats the point several of us have been trying to make. You just need to learn how to start the buggies. They don't start like todays cars with fuel injection even if you do have an electric fuel pump to help. As for electric pumps, I had one on my coupe and took it off after it went out and flooded my engine real bad. I'm back to a new mechanical pump and she starts just as good in my opinion as it did with the electric pump on it. My B&B carb was rebuilt when I rebuilt the engine so it's like new.

Fred, sounds like your car is starting as it should the way it is.

If anyone questions the need for pumping before starting, they only need to pick up a copy of the original owners manual. It gives the same starting procedure we mentioned. I do have a copy of the P15 Owners Manual that I'm quoting from. Think the same procedure is mentioned in the Service Manual.

[JIPJOBXX]

Yep I also have the same problem with having to prime the carburetor. I would like to ask one of the old timmers here if they remember when these old six's were new if they had to be primed after a week of sitting. Also has anyone thought of a way to prime the carburetor without taking oft the air filter? I was thinking if you had an old oil bath filter that you could drill a hole in it and run a tube down to the throat of the carburetor and use that to prime the carburetor without the hassle of removing the top of the oil bath filter. And does a manual choke work better for priming the carberator? Jon:cool:

[Norm's Coupe]

Yep I also have the same problem with having to prime the carburetor. I would like to ask one of the old timmers here if they remember when these old six's were new if they had to be primed after a week of sitting. Also has anyone thought of a way to prime the carburetor without taking oft the air filter? I was thinking if you had an old oil bath filter that you could drill a hole in it and run a tube down to the throat of the carburetor and use that to prime the carburetor without the hassle of removing the top of the oil bath filter. And does a manual choke work better for priming the carberator? Jon:cool:

Jon,

Guess I might be one of those old timers since I owned a 52 Dodge as my first car in the early 60's and also grew up around these cars. The answer to that is, they never sat that long because they were everyday cars.

That said, the cars on the Used Car Lots did sit for weeks or more before being started. The cars still started though without priming. The salesman would usually start the car for the customer though in that case. The salesman would get in the car, pump the accelerator several times, crank, then repeat again. Cars always started right up without priming, unless there was a bad or weak battery. And, none of them had electric fuel pumps back then.

[FMSPEED49]

What it takes is the removal of the carb top - four screws - after the vehicle has been sitting for several days. In a normal healthy carb, fuel should still be present, even after a few days' time. If no fuel is visible, there are a few possibilities:

1. The carb leaks fuel. Indicates the need for a rebuild - especially if it looks wet on the outside or drips fuel when running or after shut-off.

2. Fuel pumps have check valves to keep fuel present in the line between carb and pump. If the check valve fails, lots of extra cranking is reqquird to get fuel delivery started again. With six volt systems, this spells lots of extra load for the battery and starter, each time the vehicle sits for a time prriod. The only fix for this problem is a new pump.

I have rebuilt the carb, no leaks, a new fuel pump, new lines and a sealed tank, and it will EVAPORATE 1/2 to 3/4 of the bowl after 3-5 days, in a climate controlled garage.

[Reg Evans]

Yep I also have the same problem with having to prime the carburetor. I would like to ask one of the old timmers here if they remember when these old six's were new if they had to be primed after a week of sitting. Also has anyone thought of a way to prime the carburetor without taking oft the air filter? I was thinking if you had an old oil bath filter that you could drill a hole in it and run a tube down to the throat of the carburetor and use that to prime the carburetor without the hassle of removing the top of the oil bath filter. And does a manual choke work better for priming the carberator? Jon:cool:

Jon,

All I do is loosen the wing nut on top of the air cleaner and fill the little depression on top. It dribbles down into the center of the carb throat.

P.S. Norm. If there's no gas in the carb the choke will not have any effect on starting the car and the accelerator pedal is only squirting air.

[Norm's Coupe]

P.S. Norm. If there's no gas in the carb the choke will not have any effect on starting the car and the accelerator pedal is only squirting air.

Well, thats true if the carb has no gas it won't start. However, I always start my coupe as stated in the previous post. Starts right up.

[norrism1]

My 51 B3B started by doing the following, Pump peddle 2 times, pull choke out completely, press starter button and use my heal to fan gas pedal lightly and at the same time push choke in completely and pull out 1/8 th to 1/4 distance of travel. Always started even in dead of winter. This was as 6 volt positive graound and 12 volt negative ground. I remember my dad doing that same procedure when he drove it back in early 70's. My 2 Cents!

[Captain Neon]

You may want to consider a new coil. $15 at AutoZone. I dropped a new coil in today just as a bit of insurance before going to New Mexico on Friday and I was amased at how well my P15 started after sitting over three days. I used to struggle and fight to get things going and keep going until thoroughly warmed up, but this new coil seemed to help. With a new clutch and rebuilt tranny, it's even more of a pleasure to drive. Now. I'm just like the rich people.

[Young Ed]

I got my truck back today. After sitting from 10/27 to 4/1 all I did was hook the battery cable back up, hit the gas a couple times, pulled the choke and it started after about 30seconds of cranking. I did hold the gas down a little while cranking which is quite the technique in a floor start truck.

[Don Coatney]

I got my truck back today. After sitting from 10/27 to 4/1 all I did was hook the battery cable back up, hit the gas a couple times, pulled the choke and it started after about 30seconds of cranking. I did hold the gas down a little while cranking which is quite the technique in a floor start truck.

Thirty seconds is about right to allow the fuel pump to re-fill the carburetor. Personally I do the cranking in short bursts for two reasons. First to build oil pressure and secondly to not overheat the starter motor. In the last couple of short bursts I rapidly pump the foot feed. I have only used my choke a couple of times. Only reason I use it is to set the fast idle cam on the carburetors for higher idle speed during warm up.

Nice picture by the way! Did you take that today? I am sitting here sweating and ready to turn the air conditioning on. I cut part of the grass a few minutes ago for the second time but it is too wet (lots of rain last night) to cut the rest.