Which were Airflow models?

[Ed Griffin]

I was just reading this at the allpar website and have heard the term but can not remember which were considered the Airflow models.

"In comparison, the last flathead 8 was used in 1950, with 323.5 cid and 270ft/lbs @ 1600 rpm. Although the 8 was more powerful, most people found the smooth power produced by the six was sufficient, and so a vast majority of older Chryslers found today are equipped with sixes. These figures are at the rated compression of between 7 and 7.5 to 1.

The flathead eight-cylinder engine was used in a large variety of vehicles. Because it was a straight-eight (not a V8) design, the revolutionary Airflow models had to be lengthened to accommodate it."

[Young Ed]

The airflow models are a seperate line made in the mid 30s. Both desoto and chrysler had them. They were more aerodynamic and really ahead of their time. They didnt sell well and were discontinued.

[bob westphal]

If you saw one you would know it! They looked similar to what a four door Beetle would look like. The Airflows also came in six or eight. They were a great car with many innovations that were later adopted by the industry as a whole. Nobody was ready for the styling then, not even me ten years later. I thought they were the ugliest thing on the road. Most people wouldn't get close enough to one to find out the Airflow's great qualities. Now I'd love to have one in my garage!

[Ed Griffin]

Thanks guys, now you have my curiosity up as to what they looked like. Will have to do some googling.

[Don Coatney]

I only have a picture of this hot rod air flow.

[Ed Griffin]

Appreciate it Don. Knew I had seen them here or the old forum before but wasnt sure if that was it, know now Pre VW?

[BobT-47P15]

Yeah.....they were in the mid to late 1930s. I don't think the VW showed

up til the late 40s.

Here's one that was for sale at a Kansas City swap meet a couple years ago.

We even have one Airflow locally.....owned by an older couple. Un-restored and a bit run down, but rather

neat to see. Not sure which year it is.

[TodFitch]

Appreciate it Don. Knew I had seen them here or the old forum before but wasnt sure if that was it, know now Pre VW?

Don's picture is of a 1934 Airflow. The first prototype VW Beetles were very late 1930s and they really did not get produced for real until after WW2. So the Airflow was built quite a few years before the VW.

[eric wissing]

The VW design was started in 33 and not untill somewhere around 36 were they put into production. The DeSoto auction in Spencer Iowa this summer had 3 Airflows, I believe. They are really tightly packed under the hood. Cool looking cars. Eric

[greg g]

Chrysler also had a series known as the Air stream. Based on the streamlined principles of the Airflows but not quite as radical. I believe they were built between 34 and 37.

I believe this is a 35 from a MOPAR show in NE Pa. a few years back.

The airflow design was I believe the debut of the perimeter stressed frame with the body skin attached to the frame rather than bolted on top of it.

[Dennis_MN]

Here is a shot of a Desoto taken at the Binder Auction. I was impressed by the "art deco" design elements.

[Rodger S-11]

Hola Ed

When dis-counting the 323 cubed straight eight, remember they were only in the Saratoga's ( aka low end New Yorker's ), New Yorker's and the Imperials. The Common Chrysler ( Royal's, Windsor's or Traveler's ) with the six was priced and marketed to an potentual customer that had less income.

The farm hand or clerk at Penny's ( and most other folks ) did not have enough income for one of these cars.

As you know the De Soto's were moved to be above the Dodge's and below the six cylinder Chrysler. This lasted until the "cheap FireSweep" with the 122 inch wheel base of 1957.

Rodger & Gabby

COS

[eric wissing]

Here is a shot of a Desoto taken at the Binder Auction. I was impressed by the "art deco" design elements.

Dennis, were you there when the battery blew up? I can not remember what they brought. It didn't seem ridiculously high but parts sure wouldn't be as common as the P15s or d24s. Eric

[Jim Saraceno]

Airflows were one of the first cars that were built to be "aerodynamic". When testing existing models in an air tunnel, it was determined the old flatback sedans were more aerodynamic going backward that forwards.

They were designed strictly by engineers rather that designers and though they had many features that would eventually become adopted by all car manufacturers, the design was so "radical" they didn't sell well.

The Airflows were made by Chrysler and DeSoto along with the Airstreams that were similar in design to the Plymouths and Dodges of the time.

Here is a picture of a prototype that Chrysler made in 1935 that many consider to be a major influence on Porsche and his beetle:

[Dennis_MN]

Dennis, were you there when the battery blew up? I can not remember what they brought. It didn't seem ridiculously high but parts sure wouldn't be as common as the P15s or d24s. Eric

I don't remember the battery blowing up. But the one in the foreground with the art deco grill was called a "1936 Airstream" and it went for $16,500.

The one in the background with the fender skirts was a 1935 Airflow and sold for $8000. There was also a 1934 that went for $15,250.

That collection of cars and the auction was quite the show, there will never be another like that again. There were guys in our motel who came from Arizona just for the Airflows but they said they were not the best examples to be had.

Dennis

[eric wissing]

I was about 50 feet away talking to a guy I hadn't seen in 20+ years when the battery blew. It was fun to watch. You are right. I can't imagine another collection of DeSotos so large being auctioned off. Eric

[B-Watson]

I don't remember the battery blowing up. But the one in the foreground with the art deco grill was called a "1936 Airstream" and it went for $16,500.

The one in the background with the fender skirts was a 1935 Airflow and sold for $8000. There was also a 1934 that went for $15,250.

That collection of cars and the auction was quite the show, there will never be another like that again. There were guys in our motel who came from Arizona just for the Airflows but they said they were not the best examples to be had.

Dennis

The one in front is a 1936 DeSoto Airflow, the middle one is a 1935 Airflow and in the rear is a 1934 DeSoto Airflow. Note the different trim designs on the sides of the hoods. The placement of the headlamps is a sure giveaway that the cars are Airflows. The 1935 Airstream shows the style of headlamps used on non-Airflow models. The Airstream (non-Airflow) bodies were based on the Plymouth body.

Go back a few messages to the one with an Airflow coupe on a trailer - note the side chevrons. It is another 1936 DeSoto coupe. The blue one below it parked next to a Corvette is a 1937 Chrysler Airflow.

The Airflow was not a true unibody vehicle. Its body was separate from the chassis, unlike true unibody cars. The body had an all steel frame and was attached to the chassis. True unibody do not have a separate chassis and the bodies do not have a frame. Instead the body is built up of various panels, with the inner ones taking the stress and contributing to the strength of the unit. This style of unibody was developed by Budd, first on the 1934 Citroen Traction-Avant, followed by various models of Opel, Vauxhall, Hillman and Morris in the 1930's and the Nash 600 in 1941. The only unsuccessful unibody was the 1948 Hudson - the only one that did not follow Budd initiatives.

If you checked the 1934-37 parts books you will see you could purchase a full chassis frame without the body. I have a 1934 parts book that lists the Airflow bodies being available, while in production, in three versions -

1) complete, in white, less glass and interior

2) complete, painted, less glass and interior

3) complete - painted, with interior and glass installed.

Needless to say there was no "stress" to that set up. Also, production records do show chassis units (less body) were sold. And the above explains how that was possible.

The first Airflow was introduced in 1934. The DeSoto Airflow, 115.5" wheelbase, was available only with a 241.5-cid six. The front and rear doors of opposite sides were of the same design, with the rear doors modified to go around the rear fenders. Body styles were 5-pass. coupe, 2-door sedan and 4-door sedan. The 2-door sedan was dropped for 1935.

Next up the line was the Chrysler Airflow Eight, on a 123.5" wheelbase. The body was the same as the DeSoto only with a longer hood to fit the straight eight. Chrysler did the same with the non-Airflow models. Body styles were 5-pass. coupe and 4-door sedan. The 1934 models used a 298.7-cid engine while the 1935-36 models used the 323.5-cid engine.

The next jump up was the Chrysler Airflow Imperial Eight, on a 128" wheelbase. On this body, the rear axle was moved back 5" eliminating the cut out on the rear doors. The bodies were also extended 5" behind the doors, with the quarter windows on coupes and sedans longer with a 2-piece glass arrangement.

The Chrysler Airflow Custom Imperial on a 137.5" wheelbase came next. This time the extension was in the front area of the body, which came only as a 4-door sedanm, with the coupe body doors used for the front doors. The Imperial and Custom Imperial models used the 323.5-cid straight eight.

Up to this point, the bodies shared stampings. The front clips were unique for the DeSoto 6 and Chrysler 8. And some models offered a town sedan, basically a 4-door sedan minus the rear quarter windows. The business coupe was the 5-pass. coupe minus the rear seats.

Model numbers, listed as DeSoto 6 / Chrysler 8 / Imperial 8 / Custom Imp. 8 :

1934 : SE / CU / CV / CX

1935 : SF / C1 / C2 / C3

1936 : S2 / C9 / C10 /C11

Although 1934-35 Airflows had smooth rear quarters with the spare mounted outside, for 1936 the sedans gained trunk lines similar to the 1936 non-Airflow touring sedans. And the spare tires were now stored in the trunk. To access the trunk on the 1934-35 models, you had to pull up on the rear seat back which lifted up to gain access.

For 1937 the Airflow came only as the Chrysler Airflow 8, model C17. In reality it was the 1934-36 Airflow Imperial, minus the "Imperial" name.

The top model was the Chrysler Airflow Custom Imperial 8, model CW. This model was custom built by LeBaron on a 146.5" wheelbase. The CW model had longer rear doors plus a one-piece, curved windshield, an industry first. The engine under the hood was a 384.8-cid straight eight - 3.5" bore and 5" stroke.

Model CW was built in 1934 and 1935, with eight leftover 1935 bodies updated with 1936 trim. Another two were built as 1937 models. The 1934 models were model CW while the 1935, and the leftovers, were model CW*.

One last variation. In 1934 Chrysler of Canada offered a Chrysler Airflow Six, model CY. It was basically a DeSoto with a Chrysler grille, Chrysler instrument panel, Chrysler taillamps, emblems and nameplates.

The Airflow was not a sales success and the best year was 1934 -

DeSoto 6 (13,999), Chrysler 6 (445), Chrysler 8 (8,402), Imperial 8 (2,279) Custom Imperial 8 (128) and Custom Imperial CW (48). The final year, 1937, saw production total 4,600 units.

Contrary to many, it did not leave Chrysler Corporation on the brink of insolvency. Due to the body part sharing, Chrysler was able to keep the cost of tooling down. Chrysler Corporation showed a profit every year from 1933 through 1957.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[Robin (UK)]

The VW design was started in 33 and not untill somewhere around 36 were they put into production. The DeSoto auction in Spencer Iowa this summer had 3 Airflows, I believe. They are really tightly packed under the hood. Cool looking cars. Eric

Eric has that right, but the Beetle design was, in turn, based on the Czechoslovakian Tatra, designed by Hans Ledwinka.

He was Austrian and shared his ideas with Ferdinand Porsche when he was drawing up the Beetle.

I have read, previously, that one of the reasons Hitler wanted to invade Czechoslovakia was to annexe its industrial might and engineering excellence.

Obviously, after the Nazi occupation (and decimation) and years of post-war Soviet rule, most of that industrial heritage was wasted.

These links give some interesting information:

http://www.tatra.demon.nl/cars_history_aerodynamic.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_(car)#War_years

[Brendan D25]

Bill (B-Watson), first I should welcome you to the forum, and secondly I am impressed by your automotive knowledge and research abilities. I am curious as to what old car(s) you have. Brendan.

[eric wissing]

B-Watson, Thanks for the info.

Robin, You are correct. Like technology everywhere it is often the first to successfully implement the idea that gets credit. RCA claimed it invented TV at the 1939 World's Fair while Philco was alrready selling a few sets and had a station up and running in Philidelphia. Eric

[Rodger S-11]

Hola Class

I have known about Bill for about ten years now. He may have only "joined" this version of the board ( like myself ) because he was going to exploid if he did not answer the question.

If you happen to have or have an interest in the Imperial Division, the Forward Look era MoPars, The De Soto's, the Post War Chrysler's ( 1946 - 48 ), the 1961 - 71 Dodge Trucks or whatever, Bill reads the postings.

There has been a couple of times I have asked him directly about an engine or whatever cause I knew I would get the "real deal" from him vs ... I beleive ole Joe once said.

Me thinks to ask him about his vehicles is like asking the local Judge if they have an Black Cape.

Rodger & Gabby

COS

[Ed Griffin]

All I can say is I'm very impressed with everyones responce on this subject and want to thank you for some really great information. Ed

[Jim Saraceno]

Airstream:

Airflow:

Just like the Stones, "Start us up, and we'll never stop".

[Rodger S-11]

Hola Ed

This subject has been on my mind since you started it. Then I remembered that I have had an 1934 Chrysler News, AirFlow Extra. This original flemsey & thin eight page printing has been with me several years now.

All I rebember is it showed up in the mail one day several years ago.

Here is some of the scans that I have done of it.

Rodger & Gabby

COS

[Normspeed]

Guys, this is like that part in star trek where they go into warp drive...(insert special effects here:eek: :eek: )

I've always loved the AirFlow (Airflow?) look but have never seen so much about it in one thread. Didn't even realize there was an Airflow and an Airstream. Great stuff. And welcome to all of the new folks we've seen come on the forum recently. Gotta be the best place there is for flathead-heads.

BTW in addition to my P24, here's my barn find.