Need some clarification regarding ECI Master Cylinder kit 1941 Plymouth - what happens to the stock pedals, how do you mount them

[desertdroog]

Please bear with me, as I am learning about my 1941 MoPar.

 

I have already searched this forum and downloaded the PDF from ECI Brakes to learn about what the kit is, and I still have a few questions since I didn't see any images that show what and 1941 Plymouth ECI dual master reservoir kit looks like installed.

 

I have finally finished my Model A project and am planning out my 1941 Plymouth Business Coupe project (8 years longer than I had anticipated). I have a specific question about the ECI Master kit if anyone has knowledge on this upgrade when changing to a dual master reservoir from the original single master. I understand that the 1941 Plymouth Master Cylinder has a hoop on the front which holds a bushing for the pedals which are mounted on this unit. If that is the case, how do the pedals locate when you remove the stock master cylinder and use one that ECI offers?  Do they have a bracket/pedestal where you press in the Pedal pins?

 

If I am not being clear with my description, I am talking about what I learned in these videos:

 

Looking at the pdf ECI offers on this page:

https://ecihotrodbrakes.com/chrysler-master-cylinder-assemblies

 

They have two drafted images of the brackets but I cannot make heads or tails of how that will be  a solution for mounting the stock pedals as the video above shows the pin and loop on the master cylinder as being a complete unit, rather than like in a Ford application of the same year being an assembly that are divorced from the master cylinder.

 

I am looking for anyone who has done this update when modernizing their brake system and what to expect if they can answer how the Pedals will mount when you remove what looks to be a very integral part of locating them under the floor. I would like to keep my stock pedals and not go to a firewall setup and I don't want to go to a ECI style universal under floor setup if I don't have to either, shown here:
https://ecihotrodbrakes.com/compact-underfloor-systems

 

 

Edited December 16, 2024 by desertdroog
Added second video for clarification

[Plymouthy Adams]

Not to sound snarly but it may seem that way to a few, but if you are entertaining or have bought a kit from supplier, then by all means that said supplier should be able and WILLING to address any issue you may have any aspect of applying their wares to your vehicle.   

 

You will likely get a reply to link here to I DID THIS or I DID THAT but nay not be exact to your application.   To say they just plug and play, for the most part many of the kits strive for this but there are always it seems some tweaks by most users before the job is buttoned up and done.  

[bacelaw]

The 41 plymouth master cylinder doesn't have a hoop on it for the pedal mechanism...on the 41, the master is totally separate from the pedal assembly....fyi

[Dave72dt]

I saw an asterisk in the price reference of the 39-41 kit and following that down to the bottom of the page is an additional part required for standard shift trans.  Install instructions seemed fairly straight forward.  There's also a pic of the kit with the bracket at the bottom of the page.  It would be nice if it was larger but it's something to get an idea from.  ECI should be willing to help.  If not, consider some other company.

[Bob Riding]

Here are some pics from my '40 wagon using the ECI kit. It has always worked well and was straightforward to install. 

[desertdroog]

 

On 12/16/2024 at 11:55 AM, bacelaw said:

The 41 plymouth master cylinder doesn't have a hoop on it for the pedal mechanism...on the 41, the master is totally separate from the pedal assembly....fyi

 

Thank you for confirming that the master cylinder is not a part of the Pedal Assembly. I wasn't sure, and until I can get to my project (it is in storage since I purchased it years ago, just trying to get my ducks in a row), I wasn't sure what my solution was going to be.

 

Thank you for the images, Bob Riding. Though yours is a 1940, if the master cylinder in my 1941 Business Coupe is similar, then I have all the information I am looking for. I appreciate it, those are worth 1000 words.

 

As to why I haven't reached out to ECI is because I haven't bought anything from them. I wanted to find out if anyone had done this with images on their project that explain their kit. I also didn't want to waste ECI's time in case I decided I was going to go a different way. I didn't want to be in the position of buying something, getting halfway into the project and finding out it wasn't going to satisfy my needs. I have been in that position before, it isn't fun. It is a waste of time and as we can all agree, time is precious.

 

Thank you all who entertained my query and offered up their two cents.

Edited December 21, 2024 by desertdroog

[plymouthcranbrook]

ECI’s time and main purpose is getting you to buy their products. It is never a waste of time for a honest company to talk to a potential customer.

[desertdroog]

Based on the points raised in this topic, the images and helpful advice, I felt educated enough to call up ECI Brakes and had a conversation with Mark, whom I assume is the owner of ECI Brakes. He tasked me with a series of questions that I wasn't prepared to answer, so I have to look up bore sizes of the disc brakes I am going to use, because that defines the necessary master cylinder to make everything work copasetic. One thing I am not sure of how to answer is, what is the pedal ratio on a 1941 Plymouth Coupe.

 

Anyone know what this would be? I understand that depending on the pedal ratio, it may limit what bore size I can do, which will limit what disc brake caliper bore sizes I will be able to run WITHOUT having to go to a power booster. Since I want to keep as much space under my floor as I can, I intend to keep this all manual.

[andyd]

Disc brakes can be used without a power booster but the pedal effort is generally quite high.......it is possible to use a remote mounted power booster that is connected just to the disc brakes only.........I can't help with the pedal ratio tho'........andyd

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, andyd said:

Disc brakes can be used without a power booster but the pedal effort is generally quite high.

 

Not necessarily, if the pedal ratio is correct then the effort is similar, but the travel is increased.  I had a manual disc brake Dart that had nice pedal effort, but it was a factory setup properly designed.  With the pedal ratio and M/C bore diameter balanced.

 

However, in a setup like the OP's you are constrained by the existing design and that can cause pedal effort issues.  Especially is you go with a M/C bore diameter that is too large.

[Dave72dt]

Give them the length of your brake pedal to the center of the pedal pivot point and from the center of the pedal pivot point to the center of the pushrod pivot point.  You might also want to measure the travel distance of the pedal to the floor.  Their engineers can calculate it or you can.  You may want to note the position of the pushrod pivot point to the pedal also.  It's going to be in the 6 : 1 minimum ratio for manual brakes and a bit less for power assist but do your measurements.  I know there's some info on the internet regarding pedal ratios when researching for my firewall mounted booster and hanging pedals.

[Dave72dt]

I've got manual front disc, rear drum on my Mach I.  Pedal effort is more than with power but no more than with drum all around.  Used the same pedal when I did the conversion.