1949 Plymouth Transmission Frozen to Bell (Clutch) Housing

[temecularevev]

This is my 1949 Plymouth Suburban, recently purchased. Pretty much stock. I suspect a gear oil leak at the front of the trans, as the repair manual refers to as the Drive Pinion Bearing Retainer. The exploded drawing shows a gasket and screw grommets. I assume the leak is from one of these.

 

Anyway, I followed the Manual instructions as to removal. The drive shaft, all the attachments and I loosened the 4 bolts attaching the trans to the bell housing. I expected the trans to come loose from the bell housing. But no. I jacked up the trans a bit, hoping for it to release. Nothing. I put a little prybar pressure. Still nothing.

 

Am I missing something here? I don't want to bend or break anything.

 

Also while I'm asking questions:

1. Any suggestions where to get the gasket and screw grommets? (if needed)

2. As might be seen in the photo, the rubber engine mounts are completely rotted and smashed. Advice on replacements?

 

Thanks,

Craig

 

[Sniper]

The bearing retainer is a snug fit in the bellhousing. That's what centers the transmission. It is entirely possible that after 70 some odd years rust has formed and is holding it in place. Now in my yoith I would just to grab the tail shaft and jerk it up and down until it popped free not thinking to thread in some bolts loosely to keep it from falling on me. You might have to get a little more energetic trying to separate it but screw two bolts in a couple of threads just to keep it from falling

Edited December 12 by Sniper

[andyd]

It might be hung up on the throwout bearing or even stuck in the pilot bushing inside the flywheel........have you removed the inspection cover on the bottom of the bellhousing to check what its like inside?...........when I was young & stupid, ie 16yrs old(54yrs ago) I decided to remove the engine..........undid the rear driveshaft & front shaft bolts.......but it wouldn't come off the parking brake, so undid the gearbox but it wouldn't come away from the bellhousing so undid the engine & pulled the WHOLE SAUSAGE out.........lol........then it was easy to pull the driveshaft from the park brake, the gearbox from the bellhousing and as the engine was now out...........lol......if the bolts are all undone then its just being difficult.........dicuiss its parentage and have another go at it..........lol...........andyd

[Eneto-55]

My brother was given a 47 P15 that had previously been nose down on a creek bank (to prevent erosion).  We took off what parts we could get, and I really wanted that transmission (thinking that the grease inside might have prevented the gears from rusting), but no way was it going to separate from the bell housing. So our dad eventually scrapped it all.  (Now I can think of some other parts I would have tried to get off, but it was already long gone.)

[Saskwatch]

3 hours ago, andyd said:

dicuiss its parentage and have another go at it..........lol...........andyd

Good one andyd (-; 

   I for one tend to take this restoration project that I freely chose way to seriously at times …. Thank you Andy for the reset ! 👍

[temecularevev]

Well, thanks again for giving me the confidence to try harder. My adult son came by and we both used prybars on each side with a jack to support and with 2 bolts a few threads in. It came loose. This forum and you guys are a invaluable resource. 

 

It does appear the bearing retainer gasket is the oil leak culprit.  The "screw grommets" (they might just be "O" rings) are also pretty deteriorated. I will now be on the hunt for replacements.

Thanks again,

Craig

[TodFitch]

Sheets of gasket stock are available. A hole punch set is pretty cheap at Harbor Freight and I bet you have some scissors and a shop knife at your house.

 

Some gaskets are best purchased but it is amazing how many can be made with relatively little time, effort or cost.

[Sam Buchanan]

Some info about chasing transmission leaks:

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/50800-chasing-transmission-leak-48-p15/

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/58630-major-leak-countershaft-3-speed/

 

And a long thread about transmission mounts:

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/50844-engine-mounts-p15-caution/#comments

 

Also, make a set of guide pins:

 

[FarmerJon]

8 hours ago, TodFitch said:

Sheets of gasket stock are available. A hole punch set is pretty cheap at Harbor Freight and I bet you have some scissors and a shop knife at your house.

 

Some gaskets are best purchased but it is amazing how many can be made with relatively little time, effort or cost.

The bearing retainer gasket sets the endplay for the input shaft. A home made gasket would be OK as long as the endplay is checked. 

The "Best" gasket set runs around $30 on ebay, and all the seals are available from Rock Auto. Why not reseal the whole thing while it is out?

 

For the bolt grommets, I suspect that they were molded in when new. For my transmission, I used liquid thread sealant on the threads, and black RTV under the head of each bolt. Everything clean and dry, of course. My transmission also had 2 or 3 of the lower tailshaft housing bolts "sealed" with the bolt grommets too, and I did them the same way. No signs of leaks yet. 

[temecularevev]

Thanks to all for the advice and links.

Craig

[D81938]

Teme,  I get all my parts from Andy Bernbaum.  Expensive but Available!  I just did a Clutch, Pressure plate, throw out bearing and cut the flywheel.   Now on to another part of the car. 🤑

[Dartgame]

For the seals on the retainer bolts, go to your local hardware and find some 0-rings that fit the bolts snugly, should be 5/16" ID, and fit in the retainer recess. probably 1/16" wall o-ring will do the trick.

 

I just re-assembled my overdrive trans a day ago and found the retainer o-rings were okay. I slobbered them up with permatex #2 and sent them. For the overdrive to gear box bolts, the o-rings were toast, I found #8 o-rings worked nicely, and I sent them slobbered with permatex #2. I'm guessing the standard 3 spd trans uses o-rings on the bolts for the trans extension to gear box too. Silicone could work, if everything is pristinely clean. Permatex #2 doesnt care if its perfectly clean....

Edited Wednesday at 11:04 PM by Dartgame