VIN Location

[Marko]

Hi everyone. I have a 1948 B1B with no tag on the door frame. Does anyone know where I can find the vin number? Could it be stamped on the body someplace?

 

[Merle Coggins]

It should be stamped into the frame, just ahead of the left front tire. You may have to do some gentle cleaning/sanding to find it. It should be an 8 digit number, likely starting with an 8

[Marko]

Thanks Merle, I'll look for it after work.

I'm getting ready to sell mine

[Eneto-55]

Are there holes on the A pillar where the SN tag is normally located (on the cars - not sure about the PUs)?

 

(On the cars, the SN tag is on the A pillar, on the left side for most of the P15s, and on the right side for the 42 models.  The number on the frame - on the cars - is the engine number, not the SN, which MoPar intended to be used as the vehicle identification number for titling purposes.)

 

The main question is whether you have a title.  Some states DID use the engine number, so that may be on the title, if you have one.  (I guess the other question is whether it has the original engine, or if it has one at all.)

Edited January 31 by Eneto-55

[Marko]

Yes I have a title showing a vin number. I'm getting ready to sell my truck and I want to be able to show the next owner the vin number on the truck. There are no holes on the A pillar where the tag should be, I have not compared the vin number on the title to the engine number.

[Ivan_B]

2 hours ago, Marko said:

I'm getting ready to sell my truck and I want to be able to show the next owner the vin number on the truck.

Sorry, a silly question: how did you check it when you bought the truck yourself? ?

[Marko]

To be honest, I didn't check it. I bought it from a friend of mine. It was a local farm truck. I have bought several classic Mustangs from him in the past, so I never really thought about looking for the vin. 

[Ivan_B]

Did you at least transfer the title to yourself? Or is your state very relaxed about motor vehicle registration and does not check the vin either? These old cars do not technically have a vin, but an engine, chassis (frame), and a body number. Some of these will be the same number, depending on the model. So, you should be able to find at least one number matching to your title, somewhere. If i recall correctly, the chassis number on some cars is also stamped in several places on the frame. I can see one behind the driver's real wheel, on my sedan, for example.

[Eneto-55]

I don't know about other states, but here in Ohio, when I bought an old car (75 Dart) from an individual out of state, I had to drive over to an area dealership to verify the VIN.  (This could also have been done at the BMV, but the dealership was closer, and the fee was only a few bucks.)  I would suspect that most states will want to see something of a SN tag.  Did some of these Dodge PUs have the tag inside the glove box?  Seems I recall something to that effect.

[Marko]

It was a NC Title and I live in NC, so I had no issues getting the title in my name. 

There was no inspection, it was just paper work. Owner signed it, notarized it, I signed it, and off to the DMV it went.

3 weeks later I had my title.

[Sniper]

In texas, out of state purchase has to have the VIN number verified before they will issue a title. If it already has a Texas Title then they will reissue a title in your name without a VIN check. However, we have an annual safety inspection and the inspector is supposed to check the VIN number. Of course that safety inspection goes away after this year.

[Ivan_B]

My car was out of state, so I also had to do an official vin check. But, regardless of the state laws, you should always check the vin, etc. Otherwise, you are just transferring the title (the piece of paper) in your name, and nothing else, if that title cannot be linked to the specific vehicle at hand.

 

So, Marko, did you find any numbers on the car?

[Marko]

Yes I did. They are on the front frame right where Merle said to look. and yes they match the title. Now I can finish the new brakes, put the bed and front end back on her and put it up for sale. 

Thanks everyone.

If anyone is interested in a running/stopping 1948 B1B please reach out to me.

[Marko]

Just learned something else, The first part of the vin on the title is the engine number, and the second part is the frame numbers.

There I learned something today. Time for a cold beer.

[Ivan_B]

So the title has both numbers listed, like a one long vin?

[Eneto-55]

31 minutes ago, Marko said:

Just learned something else, The first part of the vin on the title is the engine number, and the second part is the frame numbers.

There I learned something today. Time for a cold beer.

It is my understanding that on the cars at least, the frame number is the original engine number.  (When I cleaned up and painted my frame - Summer of 1980 - I didn't know any of this.  I haven't wanted to destroy the frame paint job to find the number there, and the original engine was gone already when I bought the car.)  

 

So I wonder if a replacement engine number was added at the beginning of the title ID #.

 

In a search earlier today, I found a scanned book about the Canadian vehicles (covering 1929 - 1953), and it says that the SN plate is located on either the right side A pillar, or on the fire wall (engine side) above the steering column.

 

I downloaded this resource from:

https://armyvehiclemarking.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/AVM-Dodge-Serials-Book-up-to-1952-compressed.pdf
 

(Maybe everyone on the PU side already has this book.  So far I've only collect the automobile manuals.)

[Los_Control]

I think this is one of those areas where the individual state will have their own requirements.

 

As far as I have heard, the engine # & frame # matches on a vehicle with original engine ..... Not many have the original engine.

 

I wonder what year it was when cars actually had a title. ..... Just suggesting that a 1933 Dodge never had a title from the factory. This was something that came along later with the need to clarify ownership of the vehicle.

I'm also saying that adding a title to a vehicle came at different dates/years to different states.

I Imagine by the 50's most if not all states were on board so they could collect taxes for the new roads being built.

 

My only point to this, if you have a clean title in your name and you sell it ..... just go with the buyer and transfer the title if needed.

Would be easier then scraping old numbers off the frame that may not match your title .... different states used different numbers in the title process and the process changed over the years. And varied from one state to the next.

 

I think a old phrase comes to mind here ..... "Let sleeping dogs lay"

[Ivan_B]

23 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

As far as I have heard, the engine # & frame # matches on a vehicle with original engine ..... Not many have the original engine.

That is certainly true on the P10. The Engine number matches the frame number. There is also the serial number on the passenger's A-pillar, and a body number above the steering column.

 

24 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

My only point to this, if you have a clean title in your name and you sell it ..... just go with the buyer and transfer the title if needed.

Does not really make any difference if the title does not match the car, does it? ?

[Los_Control]

I'm Just saying that the op does not list the state they live in.

Also every state has their own rules or laws for giving a title to a vehicle.

What works in one state may not work in another.

 

Some states like CA will be way more difficult then TX.

If you have a truck 75 years old, who is to say if it was moved from one state that used one number or process to another state that used a different process 50 years ago .... that does not match the current process today? ......

 

Just saying, if I had a good clean title for the vehicle in my name .... I would just let it rest.

If the title transfer became a issue for the new buyer, then I would feel obligated to spend time to help them through it.

 

 

[Doremonger]

10 hours ago, Sniper said:

In texas, out of state purchase has to have the VIN number verified before they will issue a title. If it already has a Texas Title then they will reissue a title in your name without a VIN check. However, we have an annual safety inspection and the inspector is supposed to check the VIN number. Of course that safety inspection goes away after this year.

This is not correct. I have retitled several out of state vehicles in Texas without having to get a VIN verification. 

[Sniper]

10 hours ago, Doremonger said:

This is not correct. I have retitled several out of state vehicles in Texas without having to get a VIN verification. 

https://www.txdmv.gov/motorists/buying-or-selling-a-vehicle/out-of-state-and-foreign-vehicle

 

VIN inspection is part of the vehicle inspection required of all out of state vehicles wanting a Texas Title.

[greg g]

I wish folks looking for assistance with vehicle documentation numbers or engine numbers would type out the number.  Pictures of engine numbers may look crisp and detailed on your camera, but mostly illegible on laptops  or tablets.  Casting numbers may be partially blocked by shadow or corrosion.  Also it would give us a hint as to whether you are looking for an engine number or serial number when photos aren't attached.  Many jurisdictions used different numbers.  My friends 51 Plymouth is registered by engine number, mine is by serial number and we both live in the same county but went to different DMV offices.  Here in NY, there were no titles for vehicles till 1972 or so.  Vehicles were sold on the basis of a transferable registration form.  These pre 72 vehicles still do not have titles.  Standardized federal Vehicle Identification Number didn't come into use till the mid to late 60s so referring to your old car's number as a VIN is like calling face tissue Kleenex.   It works but is technically incorrect.  So let us know what number is on your paper work, and please type it out on your post

Edited February 1 by greg g

[Ivan_B]

I do not believe that this is relevant, anymore. The author was simply asking about the number's location. He located it and confirmed that it matches the paperwork. That's it

[Eneto-55]

44 minutes ago, greg g said:

Here in NY, there were no titles for vehicles till 1972 or so.  

That is really interesting to me, because folks from the East sometimes characterized states like Oklahoma as being 'backward'.  My Oklahoma title for my 46 even includes the original sale date, so I am assuming that it was issued a title when it was sold for the first time, in late 1946.  (My Dad isn't living anymore, or I would ask him about the 37 Dodge that was hiss first car, or, if it was still 1982 or earlier, my grandpa, who was born in 1893, and drove for oil-rich people in Oklahoma in the 20's.  (I do recall that my other Grandpa's first car was a Ford Model T already by around '27 or '28, didn't need to do any kind of test to get a driver's license - at that time, you just had to fill out a form and pay a license fee. That was also Oklahoma.)

Edited February 1 by Eneto-55

[greg g]

The only stuff here that had titles was real estate.  Until the state realized it could raise revenue by putting titles on all road legal vehicles.  At 50 bucks for the title and 25 bucks filing fee every time a vehicle was sold, it's easy money. Now it's on atvs, trailers, boats, rvs, snowmobiles, campers.