Confused ground short in the rear light wiring?

[Sniper]

9 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

That looks like the OEM system, like what Tired iron has, doesn't it? I think OUTFXD is using some kind of aftermarket setup.

 

The switch part pretty much all works the same, this one is an aftermarket  wire setup.  It doesn't cover a hazard circuit though.

[chris 48 P15]

was the car originally wired with one brake light in the middle

can this have something to do with this issue

[Ivan_B]

10 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

All good?

Sorry, but not exactly ? On the provided diagram, once you turn on the left turn signal, the left rear bulb is completely disconnected from the brake circuit (at the same time) so if the bulb has a bad ground it just wont work, in this case. But you are going into the right direction. This is exactly why we've asked that you check if the problem is still there with one of the bulbs removed. The fact that it is - indicates that the other bulb is not involved in the process.

[OUTFXD]

So went out and looked and the pin orientation is indeed incorrect. Looks like I got the wrong bulb at some point.

9 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

we've asked that you check if the problem is still there with one of the bulbs removed. The fact that it is - indicates that the other bulb is not involved in the process.

So you saying the fact the right bulb illuminates when the left bulb illuminates indicates that the left bulb is NOT part of the problem?

 

(sorry, have Patience with a doddering old fool.  Electricity has never been a friend of mine)

 

Actually having thought on that a bit,  it makes sense!  Thank you!

Edited January 28 by OUTFXD

[OUTFXD]

9 hours ago, chris 48 P15 said:

was the car originally wired with one brake light in the middle

can this have something to do with this issue

Yes,  the light is factory installed.  I do not believe this is part of the issue,  but it is worth looking into!  Thanks!

[Ivan_B]

1 hour ago, OUTFXD said:

Actually having thought on that a bit,  it makes sense! 

Good So, what have you found-out thus far, the pilot light bulb is wrong? How about if you remove both pilots, does it make a difference?

Edited January 28 by Ivan_B

[kencombs]

It really sounds like you have only one wire to both brake lights.   Are you sure it has worked correctly at one time?   Just to be sure trace the wire from both rear light brake filaments and see where they go

[OUTFXD]

Checked out the Gunner side bulb and discovered something interesting.  It matched the pilot side bulb.

 

With a little tinkering I discovered that the contacts inside the socket could be rotated till they matched the bulbs contacts.  Now Both lights work.

 

Sadly they still flash at the same time.

16 hours ago, kencombs said:

It really sounds like you have only one wire to both brake lights. 

Im sure that at some point in the B R A K E circuit  both wires end at the same contact.  I'm pretty sure that pretty much all cars did until the 80s when they introduced Amber Turn Signals.  which simply gave the brake and flasher systems different Circuits, thus solving the issue.

 

16 hours ago, kencombs said:

Are you sure it has worked correctly at one time?

Absolutely.

 

16 hours ago, kencombs said:

Just to be sure trace the wire from both rear light brake filaments and see where they go

They go into the passenger compartment where they are wrapped in electrical tape with the rest of the harness all the way to the dash.

 

is there any way this could be connected to the FRONT flashers?  I have been having issues with them since I swapped out the Junction box.  

[Ivan_B]

Yes, the rear flashers would be connected to the front ones, at some point because I imagine that you have only one flasher and the switch connects to it either 2 left or 2 right bulbs. What else have you done with the wiring, lately? What junction box did you swap? ?

Are you able to trace your rear flasher wires to the turn signal switch using the multi-meter?

[OUTFXD]

Junction is on the front end, Behind the horns and a pain to work on with the horns in place.

 

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/56739-jacquiline-my-1946-plymouth-special-deluxe/page/15/#comment-644040

 

 

New Junction is a total PoS.  The connectors dont hold tight,  the conectors for the Fuses are NOT connected to the junction block so the fuses twist to and frow.  I regret buying it.

Edited January 28 by OUTFXD

[OUTFXD]

I went out and tested all the connections on the front junction block.  I must have fixed something cause the front lights now all work.

 

Sadly now all four flasher bulbs flash when the turn signal is on <cries>

[Ivan_B]

1 hour ago, OUTFXD said:

Sadly now all four flasher bulbs flash when the turn signal is on

Oh, come on... ? So the front lights did not work?

Silly question: when you worked on replacing your junction box, how did you memorize what wires go where? Did you label them, etc.? The front junction box has the wires for the front lights in it so, technically, something can be messed-up in there, since the front and rear signals are connected together.

Does your first picture displays the old junction box before you touched it? The top wire seems to be not connected to anything, is that right? What happened to it after you got the box replaced?

 

Are you able to take a multi meter and tell us where each of the wires from the junction box is going?

Edited January 28 by Ivan_B

[OUTFXD]

3 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

when you worked on replacing your junction box, how did you memorize what wires go where?

I worked on one wire at a time. Assuring that it went to the correct space.  Checked connectivity with a multimeter  before replacing the wire.   

 

3 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

Does your first picture displays the old junction box before you touched it? The top wire seems to be not connected to anything, is that right?

100% correct,  as I said,  some of the work done before I came into possession of the car.... well it wasnt art.  The one wire that isnt connected?  Headlight Low beams.  Turns out the dimmer switch is toast so they just didnt bother wiring up the low beam.

[Ivan_B]

Okay, so did you fix the low beam issue? Because on the old box, I see 5x4 configuration, and the new one is 5x5 ?

Does your turn signal switch has a hazard lights position as well? The fact that after messing around with the junction box, front lights started working and all 4 lights now flash, kind of points toward incorrect wiring, and a poor contact somewhere (front lights not working). Do you know for a fact that the lights still worked as intended after your replaced the junction box?

[Dave72dt]

It's time to get out some tape and marking pens and paper to log wire locations as well as a test light to start determining each wire's function.  Right now you have no clue if the problem is located in the rear harness portion, front harness or in the turn signal switch itself.    Bulb sockets themselves can be causing your problems.  I find it odd that you can turn a pigtail to get the bulb contacts to line up.  A single contact bulb and single contact pigtail doesn't matter but a double contact socket usually has a locating tab so the pigtail doesn't turn.  If an old single contact socket has been converted to a double contact pigtail it may be causing some issues.  I would start by taking two of the three possible areas out of the equation, testing it, then splitting the other two and testing each in turn.  Since so many of the wires are the same color, it's imperative to kn ow what each wire does and is labeled as such.

[OUTFXD]

15 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

Okay, so did you fix the low beam issue?

Nope, I feel that the issue there is the switch.  clicking the switch makes no difference.  The High Beams stay on either way.

 

15 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

Does your turn signal switch has a hazard lights position as well?

It does. Also not currently working (and yes was working before)

 

14 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

I find it odd that you can turn a pigtail to get the bulb contacts to line up

Same here.  I was pretty sure it wasnt supposed to do that,  But it did. I decided not to look a gift horse in the wiring, and just accept it.

 

Thanks for the ideas guys,  Looks like I have some work to do.

16 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

, I see 5x4 configuration, and the new one is 5x5

That is indeed curious.  I cant remember What I did to achieve that. Definetely a good place to look! Thanks! Sharp eyes!

[OUTFXD]

Thinking on it,  If it was indeed a one wire socket converted to two wires.  The needed slot for the two wire contact pad would be missing.  It would be JuryRigging 101 to just file down the tab on the contact pad so it would fit. I cant imagine that having the bulb in backwards would have much of an effect beyond lighting dim when its supposed to be brite and vis versa.

[Sniper]

30 minutes ago, OUTFXD said:

Thinking on it,  If it was indeed a one wire socket converted to two wires.  The needed slot for the two wire contact pad would be missing.  It would be JuryRigging 101 to just file down the tab on the contact pad so it would fit. I cant imagine that having the bulb in backwards would have much of an effect beyond lighting dim when its supposed to be brite and vis versa.

 

That would depend on the alignment of the bulb pins compared to the bulb contacts.  If they are inline then yes, otherwise no.  For all we know one of your bulbs is shorting the two contacts in the socket together. 

[OUTFXD]

42 minutes ago, Sniper said:

For all we know one of your bulbs is shorting the two contacts in the socket together. 

THAT is worth looking in to, Next time I'm out Ill check each bulb individually.  The backs I suspect are okay,  I have never even considered it when working on the front.

[Ivan_B]

Please check all of the bulbs, and try to remember what happened to the wiring in the replaced junction box. Is it possible to return it into its original configuration, for testing?

[OUTFXD]

1 hour ago, Ivan_B said:

Please check all of the bulbs, and try to remember what happened to the wiring in the replaced junction box. Is it possible to return it into its original configuration, for testing?

Will check the bulbs,  Weather is kinda Snotty today (cold, wet ...) so I will wait till the weather clears up a bit,  hopefully no more than a couple days.

 

I will try to remember,  but no promises.   I'm lucky to remember what I had for breakfast.

[Bob Ritter]

On 1/26/2024 at 2:03 PM, Sam Buchanan said:

I suspect you have an aftermarket turn signal switch and it's wired incorrectly. Google Signal Stat and download a wiring diagram for the switch. It'll take some sleuthing to figure out which wires go where. Do you have colored wires like this coming out of the switch? 

 

When you the same color wiring I would suggest that you use colored heat shrink sleeving to identify where the wires go. You can find a complete kit on Ebay.

[OUTFXD]

Sorry guys, All ambition and no energy today.  so instead I will leave you with the diagram that will etch the basics of Electricity in your mind so you will never forgeet.