AB the only source for rear main oil seal?

[motoMark]

One of my winter projects is tackling some of the old girl's oil leaks. The pan gasket is definitely leaking so I will replace that and while I'm in there I thought I'd replace the lower half of the rear main oil seal (rope). As far as what I've been able to find, AB is the only source for this seal. Are there any other parts suppliers that sell this?

 

I'm also looking for a fuel pump gasket and have found none so far.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[TodFitch]

Last I check, which I admit was quite some time ago, Best Gaskets was making fully rebuild kits for our engines and, I am pretty sure, they also made the rear main seal available separately. At that time they would not sell to the retail but it isn't too hard to find an auto supplier that carries Best Gasket products.

 

Fuel pump gasket is easy (there aren’t that many different mounting flanges). But that one is also trivial to make from some gasket stock from your local auto supply.

 

See my parts cross reference at https://www.ply33.com/Parts/group9#9-11-01 and the Best Gasket website still shows that their 4162 rope seal kit is in their system. Their engine rebuild set for your era also shows a fuel pump gasket with a part number of 3043 but I don't know if you can get that separately. Their fancy pop up results don't give me a link to the specific items so you will have to look them up for yourself. They have a list of vendors on a page on their website too.

[Hickory]

I use olsen gasket in the Seattle area. They have Best gaskets and the old Victor brand head gaskets. A little pricey but what isnt nowadays. Great people very helpful.

[Hickory]

BTW year make model and engine size may be helpful. 

[TodFitch]

10 minutes ago, Hickory said:

BTW year make model and engine size may be helpful. 

Yes. I just assumed the 51 Plymouth in his profile but it would be nice to have that confirmed.

[andyd]

I bought a complete Best Gasket set when I was chasing stuff for the 230 I intended to build, no problems getting it thru a couple of places here in oz, I also found that I needed to get a rope seal as the gasket set didn't have that..........lol........only to find that after getting the rope seal & dropping the sump & rear main that someone had installed a neoprene seal so I didn't need to use the rope seal after all.......all this fun was 10yrs ago & I've sold that car & gasket set but I would suggest that even tho' its a PITA I'd not buy a seal UNTIL I actually inspected what was there.......also a fuel pump seal is easy to make...............some gasket paper & a pair of sissors...........my Oz 2 cents worth..........andyd 

[motoMark]

23 hours ago, TodFitch said:

Yes. I just assumed the 51 Plymouth in his profile but it would be nice to have that confirmed.

Yes, same as the profile.

[Sniper]

Really need the engine numbers to be sure someone didn't swap it out on you in the day and probably need to eyeball the rear main seal anyway to ensure you order the right one.

[DJK]

On 12/3/2023 at 7:37 PM, motoMark said:

One of my winter projects is tackling some of the old girl's oil leaks. The pan gasket is definitely leaking so I will replace that and while I'm in there I thought I'd replace the lower half of the rear main oil seal (rope). As far as what I've been able to find, AB is the only source for this seal. Are there any other parts suppliers that sell this?

 

I'm also looking for a fuel pump gasket and have found none so far.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

If you are going to that much work, I would highly suggest replacing upper part of the rope seal also. This will require loosening all the main caps in order to lower the crank slightly. NOTE: it is much easier to perform with the engine out of the vehicle.

[Hickory]

Rope seals just suck to do. Im surprised that a 51 had them in it. Some vehicles accepted the new style neoprene seals i think. I would check engine and options.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Hickory

[TodFitch]

11 minutes ago, Hickory said:

Rope seals just suck to do. Im surprised that a 51 had them in it. Some vehicles accepted the new style neoprene seals i think. I would check engine and options.

I believe that Best Gaskets supplies a neoprene seal designed to replace the rope seals on the motors that only ever had rope seals. If I ever need to dig into that on my car again I will investigate that possibility.

[Hickory]

Unfortunately I only have the rope option on my 29. So i have extra neoprene just lying around 

[TodFitch]

3 hours ago, Hickory said:

Unfortunately I only have the rope option on my 29. So i have extra neoprene just lying around 

Got the original Chrysler part number for the rear main seal parts or service kit?

 

The kept a lot of designs for a lot of years. If your seal is the same as the 1930s engines then there might be a retrofit neoprene that would work.

[motoMark]

I pulled the rear main cap and confirmed it is a rope seal.

 

9 hours ago, DJK said:

If you are going to that much work, I would highly suggest replacing upper part of the rope seal also. This will require loosening all the main caps in order to lower the crank slightly. NOTE: it is much easier to perform with the engine out of the vehicle.

Because the rope seal is "crimped" into the retainer, I don't see how it can be replaced without removing the seal retainer, which means removing the flywheel, which means removing the trans. And I really don't feel like pulling the trans at this point.  So I'm going to stick to my original plan and replace just the lower seal. If it leaks after that, well, then I guess that will be next winters project.

[Sniper]

29 minutes ago, motoMark said:

I pulled the rear main cap and confirmed it is a rope seal.

 

Because the rope seal is "crimped" into the retainer, I don't see how it can be replaced without removing the seal retainer, which means removing the flywheel, which means removing the trans. And I really don't feel like pulling the trans at this point.  So I'm going to stick to my original plan and replace just the lower seal. If it leaks after that, well, then I guess that will be next winters project.

 

What you have is not really what people call a rope seal

 

What you have, bolts to block and around the crank

 

 

This is what people call a rope seal, fits into groove in block and rear main cap.

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Sniper

[motoMark]

22 minutes ago, Sniper said:

 

What you have is not really what people call a rope seal

 

What you have, bolts to block and around the crank

 

 

This is what people call a rope seal, fits into groove in block and rear main cap.

 

 

No, it's definitely a rope seal.

[Sniper]

2 minutes ago, motoMark said:

No, it's definitely a rope seal.

 

As I stated and you failed to understand, what people, aside from you, are calling a rope seal fits into a groove that is machined in the block and rear main cap.  What you have is a bolt on seal that does not fit into a groove machined into the block and cap.  The actual sealing material composition is irrelevant to the popular nomenclature.  You can call a duck a goose but no one is going to jump.

[TodFitch]

I am going to side with motoMark with calling that bolt on seal a rope seal. At least that is what I have called it and what the people I spoke with called it back in the 1970s when I first replaced mine.

 

And to get the upper seal replaced back then I had to remove the flywheel. Even then it was not easy to get it on tight enough while lying on my back in the driveway. They really should be installed on the block and then properly rolled into place with some round stock before the crank is set in. Basically, a field repair with the engine in the car is unlikely to result in a good job compared to installing it when the engine is being properly rebuilt off the car.

 

But I will have to point out to motoMark that the 4164 seal in Sniper's first photo is supposed to be a direct replacement for the old rope seal. Even if you are not going to replace the upper half I suspect using that more modern seal would be more likely to slow the leak. And if you decide to remove the flywheel to replace the upper half it will be a lot easier to get it relatively leak free using the neoprene seal than the old rope one.

[andyd]

And apart from whether the 1/2 round seal is rope or neoprene I would strongly suggest that you make sure that those small side seals of which ther are 2 similar BUT DIFFERENT shaped versions are replaced......when I did my 41 Plymouth and found that it had the Best Gasket # 4164 style seal but NO side seals......I replaced the lower piece of the 4164 but installed the missing side seals..........whilst it still had a small drip it was nothing like it originally was.........andyd 

[motoMark]

7 hours ago, andyd said:

And apart from whether the 1/2 round seal is rope or neoprene I would strongly suggest that you make sure that those small side seals of which ther are 2 similar BUT DIFFERENT shaped versions are replaced......when I did my 41 Plymouth and found that it had the Best Gasket # 4164 style seal but NO side seals......I replaced the lower piece of the 4164 but installed the missing side seals..........whilst it still had a small drip it was nothing like it originally was.........andyd 

 

I did notice there were side seals in place when I removed the cap and will definitely be replacing them when I do the lower seal.?

[Hickory]

And i thought but could be wrong that the neoprene would bolt in the place of the rope seal as a update.

[Hickory]

My 29 is totally different as the crank actually sits up in the block.

[Hickory]

[DJK]

On 12/5/2023 at 10:17 PM, TodFitch said:

I am going to side with motoMark with calling that bolt on seal a rope seal. At least that is what I have called it and what the people I spoke with called it back in the 1970s when I first replaced mine.

 

And to get the upper seal replaced back then I had to remove the flywheel. Even then it was not easy to get it on tight enough while lying on my back in the driveway. They really should be installed on the block and then properly rolled into place with some round stock before the crank is set in. Basically, a field repair with the engine in the car is unlikely to result in a good job compared to installing it when the engine is being properly rebuilt off the car.

 

But I will have to point out to motoMark that the 4164 seal in Sniper's first photo is supposed to be a direct replacement for the old rope seal. Even if you are not going to replace the upper half I suspect using that more modern seal would be more likely to slow the leak. And if you decide to remove the flywheel to replace the upper half it will be a lot easier to get it relatively leak free using the neoprene seal than the old rope one.

I was told you cannot replace a rope seal with the neoprene seal due to the slingers on the crank surface will destroy the seal.

[Dodgeb4ya]

You redo those rope seal plates...

Buy a set of ropes...slightly spread the rope seal plate so to be able pull out the old rope.

Carefully work the new rope tightly/completely  into the rope seal plate. Re-sqeeze the seal plate tight against the rope.

Then work and firmly roll the new rope seal to properly match fit the crank diameter...

It should not be so tight that the crank is harder to turn once the main cap is torqued.

Ends of rope need to stick up above the cap mating surface about .010-.015". Lube the rope seals with oil before installing.

Not fun doing this job in the car.

On a stand is best.