Reasons for pulling to one side or the other?

[Eneto-55]

I've been preparing to sell my work vehicle, a 5th Gen (2010) Grand Caravan. It's been my only tow vehicle in recent years, and I asked around about towing a small camper with it, one that is right at, or even a bit over, the 3,600 lb rating for the GC. So we bought a used 2019 Ram Classic, and now I have to give up the GC....)

So I've been working on getting things back into top shape, to sell. It pulls to the right, and I assumed that there was something wrong in the front suspension. I had already had it up on jack stands (under the suspension), and tried to feel for anything loose. Found nothing. (Also tried to inspect the strut tower areas, thinking that something might have come loose & slid out of place, but if you know these 5th Gen minivans, you'll know that they are buried back under other stuff.) I'm trying to accept that I'm getting older, so I took it into a shop, for them to look at it.

They jacked up both sides, and put it in gear. The right wheel spun like crazy, and they couldn't hold it still at all (with both hands), while the left just sat there. Then they pulled the wheels and pried the calipers back, to release any pressure from stuck calipers. They seemed to think it made a difference, but I didn't see it, because I was on the other side of the car when they repeated the test (with the wheels mounted again).

They think that the calipers need to be replaced, and probably the hoses as well - I've already heard about how a collapsed hose can act, preventing easy back-flow of the fluid when the brakes are released. AND, it HAS tended to be eating brake pads.

This is the third MoPar mini van we’ve owned since 2000, starting with a 93 T&C, then a 2000 T&C, now this 2010 GC.  It’s been a good run, but when this one goes, then it will be the first time we haven’t owned a MoPar minivan in that many years.  If you know me at all from participating here on the forum, you know that a good part of my auto repair experience was on older vehicles. (My first car was a 62 Chrysler Newport, then a 72 Dodge Coronet. After that we lived in Brazil for 18 years, during which most of that time we didn't own a vehicle, only later purchasing an 84 VW Voyage, which was an alcoholic car - burned pure spirits. Then there is the 46 Plymouth Special DeLuxe, actually since 1980.)

So enough of that. But I haven't had good success in trying to do a brake bleeding job on ABS vehicles, especially in the front. So I decided to let the shop fix it this time. (Also because I'm really busy in my job - self employed.) So now that you've heard all of my excuses for not tackling this project myself, what do you all think of what they're telling me? (I actually started in on all of that above mainly to say that I have had very little experience with FWD vehicle repairs. But I also think I've heard that the right wheel always spins a bit more freely than the left, because of the different axle lengths, if I recall the reasoning correctly.)

(I take it back in for this work on Thursday.)

Edited August 2, 2023 by Eneto-55
clarification

[Los_Control]

Tough call .... I want to suggest calipers & rubber brake lines are  not a idiotic suggestion. At this age it could be the problem.

I have lost interest  in young kids .... doubt they would suggest such a fix.

 

I'm only suggesting a cracked & deteriorating hose or old sticky caliper ..... something a experienced mechanic would suggest.

 

Replacing both would not bother me .... Will it fix the issue? .... Maybe not.

Just the fact your mechanic is suggesting these items ..... suggest to me it is not something obvious and a good place to start.

 

Just my opinion from what I did read.

 

 

[Dave72dt]

My experience with Caravans is the lower pin in the caliper tends to seize up, especially the rear calipers.  If you've been replacing the pads yourself. perhaps you can describe how the pads are wearing.  Predominantly one pad, tapered from one edge, one side of the car versus other, etc.  You also have to look at the rear brakes, including parking brake and cables, tire pressures and matched tire diameters from side to side.

[Eneto-55]

2 minutes ago, Dave72dt said:

My experience with Caravans is the lower pin in the caliper tends to seize up, especially the rear calipers.  If you've been replacing the pads yourself. perhaps you can describe how the pads are wearing.  Predominantly one pad, tapered from one edge, one side of the car versus other, etc.  You also have to look at the rear brakes, including parking brake and cables, tire pressures and matched tire diameters from side to side.

Tires are all the same size all around.  (Fronts are Bridgestone WinterForce, and rears are Blizzacks, but same size.)

Yes, I have been doing the brake pad replacements, and this vehicle HAS tended to eat them up.  It has slotted and drilled rotors on it - not my doing, but got it that way.  I asked the mechanic yesterday if he thought they were shot, and he said no.  The inside pads always wear out first, but evenly, I'd say.  The last time I did it I worked on trying to clean out the slots where the little metal slides snap in, because someone told me that corrosion there can make them too tight.  The outside section of the calipers slide easily, and the pin boots are intact, no tears.  Actually, the right side has probably been the one that eats them up the fastest, over all.  (That's the side that is spinning most freely.)

I don't drive this vehicle much annually, maybe as much as 4 or 5 thousand miles. (It's my work vehicle, but I do manufacturing and service work, so it just depends on how often I get service calls.  Nearly all of my customers are within 15 miles of my shop, with just two that are 25 and 30 miles away.  But I don't get out to those places very often, sometimes not even once in a year's time.  Also, last Fall we "replaced" our 2009 Journey, but I kept it, mainly because although the "new" vehicle is AWD, my wife wants Blizzacks on everything.  So she used the Journey anytime there was snow on the road, and I used it most of the time when she wasn't using it.  So the Caravan mostly sat during the winter.  It was already pulling to the right then, but I let it slide because of the cold, except to put it up on jack stands, to try to find anything that might be loose.)

 

Parking brakes work well, and I have not sensed any drag.  (I know that some people never use them, but my first car - 62 Chrysler, push button automatic - had no Park, so I learned to depend completely on the parking brake.)

 

I DID replace the caliper on the left side last year sometime, and cannot say for sure if it was pulling to the right then already.  I suppose that might cause it to pull, if the right side wasn't working as well as the left (in the rear).  But it wouldn't explain why the right drive wheel spins like crazy, while the left one hardly moves at all.  So, I come back to the question I mentioned in my first post - is it true that more power goes to the right wheel in a front wheel drive vehicle than to the left?  I HAVE noticed that the right tire wears out more quickly, I'd say on every FWD vehicle I've owned.  It's more noticable with Blizzaks, because they are directional tread tires.  SO 'rotating" the tires just means switching front to rear & back again the following winter.

 

(Now the Journey, it runs straight down the road, no wandering or pulling at all.  Not like the 62 Newport, but pretty decent.  That one I once had my hands off of the wheel for a mile w/o it wandering at all.  And it was 15 or 16 years old at the time, and already had over 100,000 miles on the clock.)

[Dave72dt]

,If the suspension is fine and alignment correct, any rolling resistance would have to be on the right side if it's pulling that way.  I've also noticed the more wear on right front of fwd vehicles as well as the right rear on rwd.  Since it's your work vehicle, are you loaded more heavily on the right side?

[Eneto-55]

4 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

,If the suspension is fine and alignment correct, any rolling resistance would have to be on the right side if it's pulling that way.  I've also noticed the more wear on right front of fwd vehicles as well as the right rear on rwd.  Since it's your work vehicle, are you loaded more heavily on the right side?

I seldom haul anything much.  Just finished computers to ship, and those boxes, while large (lots of packaging), usually only weigh a bit over 20 lbs.  I have used it to pull a small trailer, but mostly just hauling a yard & a half of leaf-bark mulch at a time.  Taking trash to the dump, and scrap to the scrap yard.

Glad to hear I'm not totally off my rocker about the extra wear on the right side tires....

I have it in the shop now for front calipers - haven't had the alignment checked recently, but will do that yet, too.

[Los_Control]

I was really surprised about the front tire wear on my caravan.

I had a alignment done when I had new tires put on. Seems like 4 years the front was totally wore out while the rear still looked like new.

My front struts were totally wore out. ..... The tires wore evenly all the way across, so the alignment was good & it steers really well .... no complaints about wander or pulling.

 

Uneven tire wear would be a clue if you see it.

 

4 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

I have been doing the brake pad replacements, and this vehicle HAS tended to eat them up.  It has slotted and drilled rotors on it

I do not know about your vehicle, I have a 1993 Caravan. Slotted & drilled rotors smells like aftermarket performance products .... Not oem.

Are the calipers oem? ...... I'm all for changing the calipers .... I think I would also want to change the rotors. Put stock replacement on it and get rid of aftermarket go fast parts. ..... Or stop fast product in this case.

 

You know they eat up brake pads prompting continuous replacement. ..... Cool on a race car, but really .... are they cool on a caravan?

A stock Caravan drives nice, nobody complains about steering on them unless something is worn out.

Just my opinion, if I was looking at this job I would also swap out the rotors back to stock. ..... My Caravan the brake pads are at 1/2 way, need to be replaced .... they are over 7 years old. .... Factory brakes work fine. ....... Could the aftermarket rotors cause the pulling to one side?

 

 

[Dave72dt]

Slotted and drilled rotors may be an aftermarket or an option with the tow package.  As long as they run true they won't cause a pull.  Slotted and drilled rotors are recommended for any vehicle that does a lot of towing most owners don't like the added cost.  Having the brakes thoroughly checked/replaced makes for a good selling tool if nothing else. I suspect a parking brake cable not filly releasing to be the culprit.  An infrared temp gun after a run may help, comparing side to side.  Does the pull start out immediately and stay the same or get worse the farther you go?

[Eneto-55]

1 hour ago, Dave72dt said:

Slotted and drilled rotors may be an aftermarket or an option with the tow package.  As long as they run true they won't cause a pull.  Slotted and drilled rotors are recommended for any vehicle that does a lot of towing most owners don't like the added cost.  Having the brakes thoroughly checked/replaced makes for a good selling tool if nothing else. I suspect a parking brake cable not filly releasing to be the culprit.  An infrared temp gun after a run may help, comparing side to side.  Does the pull start out immediately and stay the same or get worse the farther you go?

I would say that it is consistent.  Also, as concerns the parking brake, after driving the 9 miles to the repair shop this afternoon (for them to work on it tomorrow), the front wheels were quite hot to the touch, both sides.  The rear wheels were both pretty cool. (And I am not a heavy braker - jack-rabbit driver.  I'm a "coaster".  Kinda' drives my wife crazy sometimes, but that's how I learned, and I think it saves on general wear & tear, and also gas mileage.)

 

I hadn't though about the drilled & slotted rotors being a part of the tow package.  I should look at the build sheet again, to see if there is any mention of it.  (I know that there are a couple of "preferred packages" listed, with code numbers, so it might have been a part of one of those.  I just imagined that it was something the previous owner had done.  (It had a bit over 109,000 on it when I got it.  It came from Virginia, where they require annual inspections, so I know that they put 50K of that on it in a single year - unless someone at the motor vehicles dept fouled up that year, or a previous year.  How do you even do that? - the 50K in a single year?!?)

[Eneto-55]

3 hours ago, Los_Control said:

I was really surprised about the front tire wear on my caravan.

I had a alignment done when I had new tires put on. Seems like 4 years the front was totally wore out while the rear still looked like new.

My front struts were totally wore out. ..... The tires wore evenly all the way across, so the alignment was good & it steers really well .... no complaints about wander or pulling.

 

Uneven tire wear would be a clue if you see it.

 

I do not know about your vehicle, I have a 1993 Caravan. Slotted & drilled rotors smells like aftermarket performance products .... Not oem.

Are the calipers oem? ...... I'm all for changing the calipers .... I think I would also want to change the rotors. Put stock replacement on it and get rid of aftermarket go fast parts. ..... Or stop fast product in this case.

 

You know they eat up brake pads prompting continuous replacement. ..... Cool on a race car, but really .... are they cool on a caravan?

A stock Caravan drives nice, nobody complains about steering on them unless something is worn out.

Just my opinion, if I was looking at this job I would also swap out the rotors back to stock. ..... My Caravan the brake pads are at 1/2 way, need to be replaced .... they are over 7 years old. .... Factory brakes work fine. ....... Could the aftermarket rotors cause the pulling to one side?

 

 

I had a 93 T&C (2nd Gen).  That's the most beautiful generation of the MoPar minivans, in my books.

The only calipers I have replaced is the left rear - left the right as is.  The piston in the left one was completely frozen up, and I couldn't get it to move at all.  I did that just a few days over a year ago.  (Unfortunately I do not recall how soon after that it started pulling to the right, or if it already was to some lesser degree.)

[LazyK]

1 hour ago, Eneto-55 said:

How do you even do that? - the 50K in a single year?!?)

1K a week was normal when I was working outside sales. Add in personal miles after work and weekends and you are replacing a vehicle every couple of years.

[Eneto-55]

Update, in case anyone is wondering how this turned out:

After getting the Caravan back after the front end brake work, I swapped the two front tires, putting the worn one that was on the right over on the left.  Now it pulls to the left, so I am assuming that the alignment is OK.  Will try to get a used tire of the same brand & size to replace the worn one, or else replace both fronts.  I have had some emergency computer work to do, as a result of a lightening strike on the telephone line at a business I do service work for.  (I just do work for Amish-owned businesses, so they don't get any lightening strikes through the power system, just the physical telephone lines.  They use generators for electricity.)

Edited August 16, 2023 by Eneto-55

[Los_Control]

I noticed my wife caravan is hard on front tires. The Father inlaw had rebuilt the transmission & installed new axles, he did his own alignment. Not a good one either.

When we got the van I put 4 new tires & had a alignment done on it.

The front struts were worn and in 2 or 3 years the front tires were almost bald evenly across, while the rear tires still look like new.

I replaced the struts & the front tires .... I told myself then I would start rotating the tires front to rear to even out the tire wear.

 

Last month I had to replace the clutch on my truck, while under there I realized the front drivers side tire had some wear on the inside edge.

Still a very good tire and no uneven wear on the passenger front tire. I also had a alignment done when I put on 4 new tires 5 years ago.

So I rotated them front to rear also.

 

Rotating the tires use to be a common maintenance routine, seems to be a lost art now days.

[kencombs]

4 hours ago, Los_Control said:

 

Rotating the tires use to be a common maintenance routine, seems to be a lost art now days.

Folks forget I guess, but it is critical to max tire life.  My 'good' vehicles get them done at every oil change so I don't forget.  5k intervals as specified by Toyota for the Tundra and wifes Town and Country just to be consistent.

[Eneto-55]

Yeah, I don't get it done as often as I should.  It also doesn't help that Blizzaks are directional, and on this vehicle, I don't have extra wheels, so the two Blizzaks just go to the rear after the snow is done, then back to the front when it starts again.   It would also help if there was a frame cross member in the front, so I could jack up the entire front at once.

[Sniper]

On 8/2/2023 at 8:50 PM, Eneto-55 said:

It came from Virginia, where they require annual inspections, so I know that they put 50K of that on it in a single year - unless someone at the motor vehicles dept fouled up that year, or a previous year.  How do you even do that? - the 50K in a single year?!?)

 

This is week 7 of my new work truck, I put right at 12k miles on it, I was on vacation for a week and a half of those 7 weeks so no mileage accrued then.

 

In fact I was supposed to be in Amarillo yesterday and today, but the customer wanted to reschedule.