"does my generator work test"

[Los_Control]

I'm really surprised Where @sniper  showed the Amp draw on a electric radiator fan .... I'm thinking 5 or 10 amps .... he is showing 25 amps.

If you have aftermarket AC that would be a huge draw of Amps.

 

For your basic car with headlights, heater, radio, tail lights, wipers  ..... A 60 amp should be more then enough.

 

The 100 amp would be better used on cars with AC, electric fans etc...

 

Same time while it should never happen, is possible with a spike in electric usage, 100 amps through your stock amp gauge would fry it.

There are ways to wire your car & avoid that .... A 60 amp alternator would never cause a issue in the first place.

 

IMHO, if you need 100 amps then get it!

Then take care of the future possibilities of potential problems in the current wiring to avoid them.

 

Or run the 60 amp alternator that will do what you need, not harm a flea .... get on with your project.

 

I'm going 12 volt GM alternator .... I chose the small 65 amp version for a reason.

[Los_Control]

Story time  

I was reading some information the other day .... Not important who it was .... Thinking maybe it was Freiberger on motor trend. I dunno.

 

Him & his wife were cruising in the Hot Rod on the way home.

The Amp gauge lit up like a Christmas tree on the way home. .... They were close enough to make it too their driveway.

 

When the amp gauge lit up, the wiring started burning .... when he got out he used a fire extinguisher on the fire .... His wife got out & pulled the ground cable off the battery.

She stated this is not our first rodeo ..... what a keeper 

 

Just saying, while some will claim too never had a issue running a high amp alternator through the stock amp gauge .... there are stories of those who did.

Maybe it should not happen .... plenty of rumors going around that it does happen

[Dave72dt]

One of the reasons for running a voltmeter instead on the higher output alternators.

[Sam Buchanan]

12 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Story time  

I was reading some information the other day .... Not important who it was .... Thinking maybe it was Freiberger on motor trend. I dunno.

 

Him & his wife were cruising in the Hot Rod on the way home.

The Amp gauge lit up like a Christmas tree on the way home. .... They were close enough to make it too their driveway.

 

When the amp gauge lit up, the wiring started burning .... when he got out he used a fire extinguisher on the fire .... His wife got out & pulled the ground cable off the battery.

She stated this is not our first rodeo ..... what a keeper 

 

Just saying, while some will claim too never had a issue running a high amp alternator through the stock amp gauge .... there are stories of those who did.

Maybe it should not happen .... plenty of rumors going around that it does happen

 

That is why you see the 30a fuse in the fat wire coming from the 6v alternator in my P15 (located where the regulator used to be), the fuse will go before smoke starts coming out of wires.

 

[Los_Control]

@Sam Buchanan I'm kinda under the impression that  @OUTFXD wants to keep their car as stock as possible.

Going with a 6volt alternator is like a sign of defeat .... while working out a new generator.

 

I could be wrong, just the way I read the situation ..... They do not want to rewire the whole car.

 

I personally had big choices to make to decide 6 volt or 12 volt.

Once you decide to go to a alternator, 6 or 12 volt you are not original.

What is the point of staying 6 volt positive ground .... If going to a alternator. ...... To me that makes no sense at all.

 

I think of it as I want to keep it original, but I've already made it not original  .... I will pretend it is cool.  And spend lots of $$ keeping it 6 volt + ground to tell others how these old cars worked.

 

 

@OUTFXD you do you. Either replace the generator or go alternator .... I personally see no advantage to use a 6 volt Alternator.

A 12 volt alternator opens many doors & makes your old cruiser more enjoyable.

If you are going to modify your electrical system .... why not use the best pieces available?

IMHO, a 6 volt alternator is cute .... nothing I would ever spend money on ...... Some do.

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

@Sam Buchanan I'm kinda under the impression that  @OUTFXD wants to keep their car as stock as possible.

Going with a 6volt alternator is like a sign of defeat .... while working out a new generator.

 

I could be wrong, just the way I read the situation ..... They do not want to rewire the whole car.

 

I personally had big choices to make to decide 6 volt or 12 volt.

Once you decide to go to a alternator, 6 or 12 volt you are not original.

What is the point of staying 6 volt positive ground .... If going to a alternator. ...... To me that makes no sense at all.

 

I think of it as I want to keep it original, but I've already made it not original  .... I will pretend it is cool.  And spend lots of $$ keeping it 6 volt + ground to tell others how these old cars worked.

 

 

@OUTFXD you do you. Either replace the generator or go alternator .... I personally see no advantage to use a 6 volt Alternator.

A 12 volt alternator opens many doors & makes your old cruiser more enjoyable.

If you are going to modify your electrical system .... why not use the best pieces available?

IMHO, a 6 volt alternator is cute .... nothing I would ever spend money on ...... Some do.

 

There are some mis-understandings here.

 

1) Installing an alternator is a sign of defeat? Really? My car has a new aftermarket fuel tank, should I feel defeated because I decided not to try to make the old, corroded, clogged tank work? What about radial tires......a sign of defeat? 

 

2) The entire car doesn't have to be rewired to install an alternator. Matter of fact, wiring is eliminated and simplified.....hey....it's just ONE wire.

 

3) There are splendid reasons for using a 6v alternator. No need to change light bulbs and the starter works as it should. If there are electric accessories such as wipers they still work fine.

 

Anyway, just wanted to address this items to avoid confusion in case someone is considering an 6v alternator. The things work splendidly and the car functions as before.....only better. 

[9 foot box]

   I agree with going 12 volt. @OUTFXDalready has a stereo, and he wants to pull a teardrop trailer. So you would want good taillights for safety. When you eventually get a light trailer, you could add another battery and a 3000 watt inverter or better for an AC power supply. You wouldn’t need propane or a cook stove, coffee pot and an electric fry pan. I would still purchase my alternator from Howard Enterprise. Rick D.

[OUTFXD]

My plan was to eventually go 12v (rewired Generator).  I just dont have the finances to do it now.  The exsisting wiring was put in by one of the previous owners with Radio shack quality wire and poorly executed crimp connectors.  She will require a Full on new loom as well as a full set of Light Bulbs,voltage droppers etc  etc, I am just doing repairs as cheaply as possible at the moment.

[Los_Control]

Just thinking if your existing wiring is good enough for 6 volt, 12 volt will be fine. 6 volt you need twice the wire size to handle the load.

So going 12 volt does not demand a new wire harness at this time ..... you could still do that later.

12 volt puts less load on your existing wires.

Just now, OUTFXD said:

My plan was to eventually go 12v (rewired Generator).  I just dont have the finances to do it now.

I understand this totally. I only have my social security check to live on ..... I do not feel I can afford to go 6 volt.

I need to be as cheap as I can to get by. But I do want 12 volt anyways.

 

I just got this delivered the other day, no time to work on the truck this week though.

$46 + $10 shipping, no core needed. It is a acdelco remanufactered Used rebuilt Can you see how cheap I am

acdelco has a very good reputation ... has a 1 year warranty Looks like it is brand new.

Thinking I will paint it satin black, spray it with WD40 then throw some dirt on it .... Will then match my truck  

 

 So $56 takes care of generator/voltage regulator.  ..... you will need to change all your bulbs. You will need a 12 volt battery.

I wonder what else is a problem .... Do you have electric wipers? .... Dont drive in the rain until you get a reducer.

Same with heater, it will run on 12 volts, just really fast ... do not use it til you get it reduced.

I do not understand the gas gauge. When I ordered my new tank & sending unit I specified 6 volt .... the kind lady said the sending unit does not care .... I dunno.

Do you have any wires going to your transmission?

It just might not be as big of a job as you are thinking. .... The most expensive item will probably be a new battery.

You can still replace it with a 12 volt generator later

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C9M40S?ref=ppx_pt2_dt_b_prod_image

 

[OUTFXD]

3 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Just thinking if your existing wiring is good enough for 6 volt, 12 volt will be fine. 6 volt you need twice the wire size to handle the load.

So going 12 volt does not demand a new wire harness at this time ..... you could still do that later.

12 volt puts less load on your existing wires.

 

I understand this totally. I only have my social security check to live on

 

I just got this delivered the other day, no time to work on the truck this week though.

$46 + $10 shipping, no core needed. It is a acdelco remanufactered Used rebuilt Can you see how cheap I am

acdelco has a very good reputation ... has a 1 year warranty Looks like it is brand new.

Thinking I will paint it satin black, spray it with WD40 then throw some dirt on it .... Will then match my truck  

 

 So $56 takes care of generator/voltage regulator.  ..... you will need to change all your bulbs. You will need a 12 volt battery.

I wonder what else is a problem .... Do you have electric wipers? .... Dont drive in the rain until you get a reducer.

Same with heater, it will run on 12 volts, just really fast ... do not use it til you get it reduced.

I do not understand the gas gauge. When I ordered my new tank & sending unit I specified 6 volt .... the kind lady said the sending unit does not care .... I dunno.

Do you have any wires going to your transmission?

It just might not be as big of a job as you are thinking. .... The most expensive item will probably be a new battery.

You can still replace it with a 12 volt generator later

Its not the conversion from 6v to 12v that causes me to think I need a new Loom but rather the workmanship of whoever installed the existing one.  Also, EVERYTHING is wired through the ignition,  Including Horn and Breaklights.

 

Social Security?  You and me brother!  I am what I prefer to call Medically Retired.

 

I didnt know that 12v alternators where so Cheap.  Ill have to look into them!  Thanks for the heads up!

 

I have Vacuum Wipers so no trouble there. Heater fan  and gauges and horn relay will need voltage reducers.  Not sure about Gas gauge sender,  Sniper commented on that before,  Ill need to look it up.

 

No wires from the transmition.

 

I HAVE a good 12v Battery,  but I will need a new one as this one is spoken for.

 

Thank you for your post! Lots of good information!

[Los_Control]

We all know you should replace the wiring harness for the above reasons that you say.

Buuuut.... if it not causing break downs, or fires .... you can squeak by a little longer ..... sooner or later you will need to change it.

If you go alternator you will need to modify existing wiring .... no way around it, removing the voltage regulator .... you can modify your existing wiring .....

 

What I plan to do, I bought a wire harness from amazon. $38.

My review on it .... it will work. I do not like the setup for the turn signals & 4 way flashers .... Will not work for my sigstat 900 turn signal switch.

This is a 12 circuit fuse box, I can not use the flashers .... too many circuits for my old truck .... the fuses are so cheaply made, I have pulled fuses and the plastic comes off the metal contacts stay in the fuse box  ???

My plan was to de-pin the extra wires from the box ... use what I need get rid of the clutter .... can always add wires back to it if needed.

I have tried every pick, probe, wire, I can not properly remove or modify the box ..... really not satisfied with it for my purposes .... The wires are well connected & will work as advertised.

While it would be fine to just use it as is ..... I plan to use the wire & trash the box.

It is true automotive wire, soft, flexible,proper gauge .... I have enough different colors to wire my truck & kinda sorta make it look correct?

Not to mention I have been collecting rolls of radio shack wire for a couple years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will use a inline fuse for my turn signals, another for the headlights I bought this small 6 fuse holder box.

While I'm not happy with the Amazon fuse box arrangement, I'm tickled pink for $38 to have all the wire of different colors to wire my truck.

A few more $$ for inline fuses and a small fuse block ..... $50 & labor have a new wiring harness.

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

 

 

I just got this delivered the other day, no time to work on the truck this week though.

$46 + $10 shipping, no core needed. It is a acdelco remanufactered Used rebuilt Can you see how cheap I am

acdelco has a very good reputation ... has a 1 year warranty Looks like it is brand new.

Thinking I will paint it satin black, spray it with WD40 then throw some dirt on it .... Will then match my truck  

 So $56 takes care of generator/voltage regulator.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C9M40S?ref=ppx_pt2_dt_b_prod_image

 

 

I will bet you a worn-out alternator belt that you will need a regulator with this alternator. But the VR166 regulator from a 1975 Ford LTD should work and is less than $30.

 

Be sure you give it a good inspection, these cheap rebuilds are notorious for having bad bearings.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[Los_Control]

Thanks @Sam Buchanan I really do trust & appreciate your electrical knowledge ..... You sure schooled me on proper wire connections crimp vrs solder.

 

What I was searching for is a 1 wire GM alternator to make the installation simple. .... Think I used 1975 chevrolet truck in the search engine. I do not remember.

 

There is a bit of a feud going on about that in other forums. A 1 wire GM alternator does not charge at idle.

 

The old ones did not .... today they do .... you might be getting into a serpentine belt though.

 

With the research I have done .... This is a internally regulated alternator. The main power wire on the left.

The two wire plug in the middle. the left is called a exciter wire .... just loops back to the main wire so it charges at idle.

The right plug is for a idiot light in the dash .... not needed on a old dodge but is a option.

Far right appears to be external ground .... I have not taken it out of the wrapping yet .

It is suppose to be internally regulated old school chebby alternator available at any parts store.

 

I do not expect to need a external regulator .... I have been wrong before.

 

[Sam Buchanan]

This page has the one-wire alternator you want:

 

https://www.ebay.com/str/howardent/12-Volt-Negative-Ground/_i.html?store_cat=20493249016

 

My one-wire 6v alternator charges like a champ at idle. It is truly "one-wire", no exciter lead needed........just one wire going to the battery.

 

Still almost positive your alternator is externally regulated per the notes I see about it. 

[OUTFXD]

What is to stop me from putting a single 12v-6v Converter BEFORE the fuse box until I am ready to redo the entire loom? (Double in my case, I have two power ins on my fuse box)

[Dave72dt]

That style case indicates it's an external regulated alt.  A 12v GM 1 wire at parts houses will be 7127-1wa. neg ground.  If you scroll down on your link you'll find some "also buys", a regulator and pigtail.

 

 

Check your amp loads on the converter ratings first.

[OUTFXD]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284595136197?epid=1260363048&hash=item42433126c5:g:TTMAAOSwXrVjVkR8&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAwFZ%2BoUg%2BFDrDfy0pW79snLDaQ0BIoj926ghRB0MV7U6Zo3JgHsc3JXt1lVF%2BrgaRJhdyDN2VZS1UEwuzja5o5MIcXjpeh%2FjJWXzguh1I2gxHLu3XC24ZrIBqW3P4kWfA3HmBLpoEAo9tfv0JDXhm481zbRI4tdelTaVVczORc%2FRsa6O2I8FG14oZyXCi3pNIVnWN52RPmTUyosamYw2JOg22dgfY2gC%2F5N2o%2Fx1m1ezh2jQLKFv7Q1qXeOTtsq4JMw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5SUo4TiYQ

 

[Los_Control]

Just now, Sam Buchanan said:

Still almost positive your alternator is externally regulated per the notes I see about it. 

Smarty pants       You are 100% correct.

 

The one on the left is a 10SI & internally regulated.

The one on the right is a 10DN .... Externally regulated & what I have.    @Sam Buchanan is 100% correct.

I'm told if you search for a 1976 camaro you will find the 10SI & what you would want.

 

Sometimes we take our wins & losses ..... I did not get what I thought I wanted.

I do happen to have a 12 volt regulator in my stash pile. .... Will have to think about it and use it or just order a different alternator. 

 

 

[Dave72dt]

7127-1WA   12v neg ground true 1 wire.  The 10si in your pic is an externally switched unit as is which I preferred over the true 1 wire.  There is a higher amp true 1wire available also but I don't remember the number for it.  The true 1-wire units come with a nice plug covering the pigtail connection

[Sniper]

There is some serious misunderstanding going on here.

 

The only current the ammeter should be reading is what is going into the battery when the alternator is charging it, or what is being drawn from the battery as in when the alternator isn't producing.  It does NOT matter how powerful the alternator is, that reading will not vary as it is based on the battery's need for charge.  If you do get a short that causes the ammeter to burn out that will happen regardless whether you choose the 60 or the 100A version.  If you are worried about that possibility, and it can happen with a generator too, then install a fusible link like the factory did.

 

If you are wiring your car put all loads other than the battery on the alternator side of the ammeter circuit, the only thing that should be on the battery side of the circuit is the battery.

[Los_Control]

18 hours ago, Sniper said:

There is some serious misunderstanding going on here.

I sure wish I knew automotive electrics better then I do. Only what I have been reading & researching ...  I'm just guessing factory wiring runs everything through the amp gauge?

 

I do a lot of researching over on the hamb. There is always more then one way to do things.

Some say that once you convert to 12 volt alternator, the original amp gauge is no longer accurate & reads too high anyways.

So some people add a shunt wire between the two post on the amp gauge ... depending on the resistance of your shunt wire .... 1/2 the power passes through the gauge, the rest goes through the shunt wire .... now the gauge is protected and actually reads closer to normal.

 

Then other people are more like @sniper, they send the higher amp items like AC or fans etc... away from the amp gauge.

Simply end of problem. Makes sense to me.

 

I'm just saying when you have 2 car builders & they wire their cars differently, I can not say one way is right while the other is wrong.

Like 2 chefs baking a cake, 2 different recipe but both work.

 

Here is a diagram showing a 1 wire 12 volt alternator conversion. The wire goes straight to the amp gauge.

Then the battery goes straight to the starter > amp gauge.

Everything is running through the amp gauge.

 

 

So a novice like me ... I need pictures to complete my wiring. This would be a typical diagram available.

Sniper is a professional electronics expert ..... I get it, they will do things different.

For those of us who need pictures .... this is what we get.

 

 

[Sam Buchanan]

Potential problems could be solved by getting rid of the ammeter. Leave it in the panel if wanted for aesthetics but don't connect it. Add a voltmeter, much, much safer and useful.

 

Here is the one in my P15 located under the dash, semi-hidden by the steering column. I installed it while trouble-shooting the generator and regulator before I got fed up with them and tossed them for the  one-wire alternator. The voltmeter is so useful I just left it in place. I still have the ammeter because it works but won't hesitate to retire it if it gives any problems....would only require putting both wires on the same post.

 

This is showing the battery being charged at 7.2v at idle (verified with digital multimeter) with the headlights on. Alternators rock. 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[Los_Control]

Just now, Sam Buchanan said:

A lot of problems could be solved by getting rid of the ammeter. Leave it in the panel if wanted for aesthetics but don't connect it. Add a voltmeter, much, much safer and useful.

I agree 100%, I want a volt meter .... same time for aesthetics I'm not happy about a dummy gauge in the dash ..... volt meter is the way to go .... I'm wondering if I can have both.

 

I guarantee I will have a volt meter .... just not sure if I can figure out how to use both amp & volt gauges at the same time or worth the trouble.

 

I hope @OUTFXD does not mind this conversation in his post ..... we are both going through kinda the same thing with charging & wiring questions.

I looked on Amazon today for a 1976 camaro alternator .... The same alternator I bought came up. .... We know it is wrong .... Amazon does not have good support.

 

While on Rockauto they have a wide selection of choices all internally regulated starting at $28.

The ACDELCO is $68 .... but it is brand new & not rebuilt .....choices.

[Sam Buchanan]

14 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

I agree 100%, I want a volt meter .... same time for aesthetics I'm not happy about a dummy gauge in the dash ..... volt meter is the way to go .... I'm wondering if I can have both.

 

I guarantee I will have a volt meter .... just not sure if I can figure out how to use both amp & volt gauges at the same time or worth the trouble.

 No problem at all with using both gauges at the same time. The voltmeter just needs one wire connected to the car's battery voltage and one wire for ground. It doesn't care if an ammeter is being used. I connected mine to the switched terminal of the ignition switch. In your diagram it could be either red wire at the ignition switch.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[Sniper]

4 hours ago, Los_Control said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Assuming normal operations the following is how the charging system works.

 

Look at the ammeter + wire, it ties into the stud on the starter, the other wire on that stud goes to the battery.  The only load on the ammeter + terminal is the battery. the starter stud is only being used as a terminal for the ammeter to battery connection, the starter is not a load at anytime for the ammeter.    On the negative side of the ammeter you have a red wire that goes to the generator (or alternator) output.  This is what carries the electrical system when the engine is running.  All other electrical loads (except the horn)* are tied to the ammeter - side, none of that current will go thru the ammeter if the generator/alternator is working.  You could tie three mile island's entire electrical output to the ammeter - side and it would never burn out the ammeter.  Because the ammeter only shows the current the battery is supplying, if the engine is off for example, or drawing to charge itself.  As for the ammeter reading wrong on 12v, incorrect.  Amps are amps, what those claiming that are forgetting is that an electrical load will draw half the amps if supplied twice the voltage.  So if they were used to seeing the headlights draw 10A at 6v (60w), engine off, and when they converted to 12v they only see 5A (60w), meter is still correct, understanding ohm's law is missing.

 

So, unless you have a dead short to ground on the ammeter + side with the engine running will your ammeter ever be at risk. and if that happens other things will let out their smoke too.  And in that case, both a 60A or 100A alternator will fry things. 

 

Remember, the only thing the ammeter measures is battery current, reads negative if it's carrying the load, as in engine off head lights on, or postie while it is charging.  The output of the alternator is irrelevant to it.

 

One thing to remember, and this is likely what lead to some of the claims, the electrical connections on the ammeter studs need to be clean and tight.  If they get dirty or loose then it increases the resistance and heat is generated.  A slow cook will still char things, till it fails then the DIY'er sees the charring and assumes the ammeter is a problem.

 

* the horn connection is on the battery side of the ammeter so as to not put the relatively large horn current draw thru the ammeter.  At 12v it's not an issue as the draw is half.